Converting From Classic

[bisby]

I won the Spanish twinshocks class in the first year the acu opened up the Sammy Miller trials to twinshocks (2005) I found the sections great and the choice of bike even better especially the big bikes!! I felt like it was an honour to be able to ride with these riders.

I won again in 2008 but the class had been opened up to all makes of twinshock bike and the class was becoming the biggest in the series.

 

I few years later I had a chat with an acu official along the lines of keeping the severity of the sections for the big bikes because if they leave the Sammy Miller series where do they go for there ride?  And his answer was Well that's progress, you cant stop that.  I thought well what a rubbish answer, But he was dead right!

      Stephen. 

[metisse]

Pre 65 bikes have always evolved, and from memory this evolution really took off in the early nineties around the time if memory again is correct, corresponded in the heady entries for classic trials including the Sammy miller rounds. Sadly even at this time there were condescending comments aimed at new builds that did not fit the criteria of what people at the time considered to be correct and more often than not modified Ariels took more flack than others. The S.M trials while very good, catered for the old school unmodified bikes and not for the new breed arriving and low scores meant that sometimes the trial was won or lost on a dab. This discouraged the more competitive rider and bike leaving it to the bikes that enjoyed this format. No problem horses for courses... if you know what I mean. Nowadays all the old boys I know with a beard and a shed at the end of the garden are building light weight bikes, where as twenty years ago they were trying to make a Royal Enfield competitive as well as juggling a job and family. More time, perhaps money and a better equipped shed , means they can have a bike now, that if they it drop, they can a least pickup without wearing truss.

Twinshock remains cheap trialing, for the time being and in my view age related classes are the way to go . The Spanish have it right with the pre 75,pre 78 pre 80 and the rest... bikes are breathed on but remain in the spirit of the classes..

I have no idea how you rein in the current pre 65 scene if in fact it needs it.. My view is those old bikes of yesteryear will remain in the sheds or used purely to get the sunday papers.

[metisse]

Pre 65 bikes have always evolved, and from memory this evolution really took off in the early nineties around the time if memory again is correct, corresponded in the heady entries for classic trials including the Sammy miller rounds. Sadly even at this time there were condescending comments aimed at new builds that did not fit the criteria of what people at the time considered to be correct and more often than not modified Ariels took more flack than others. The S.M trials while very good, catered for the old school unmodified bikes and not for the new breed arriving and low scores meant that sometimes the trial was won or lost on a dab. This discouraged the more competitive rider and bike leaving it to the bikes that enjoyed this format. No problem horses for courses... if you know what I mean. Nowadays all the old boys I know with a beard and a shed at the end of the garden are building light weight bikes, where as twenty years ago they were trying to make a Royal Enfield competitive as well as juggling a job and family. More time, perhaps money and a better equipped shed , means they can have a bike now, that if they it drop, they can a least pickup without wearing truss.

Twinshock remains cheap trialing, for the time being and in my view age related classes are the way to go . The Spanish have it right with the pre 75,pre 78 pre 80 and the rest... bikes are breathed on but remain in the spirit of the classes..

I have no idea how you rein in the current pre 65 scene if in fact it needs it.. My view is those old bikes of yesteryear will remain in the sheds or used purely to get the sunday papers.

[old trials fanatic]

tts pud i never said i didnt like the big bikes. I said i dont like riding them. Like watching them and hearing them. 

[metisse]

There's a word for people who like doing that ......

[roadster]

Well. It looks as though I have made a big mistake. I some success in pre65 sidecar trials in the late70s and eay80s.Iswapped tbe bike for a beamish Suzuki outfit but did not enjoy the harder modern trials. I have had a 30year brek from trials riding but still rode on the road. I was recently offered a

Anotherl pre65 outfit to which I said yes. We have been pra tising but is there going to be any trial left forus to enter.

Sorry a out th typing but I am trhing to use a tou h screen az it is th only xevkce I an use to access this forum.

Rod

[charlie prescott]

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy’s.

 

Sight!

 

Sound!

 

Movement! (Fast).

 

Atmosphere!

 

My Explanation.

 

Regards Charlie.  PS Ron Langston and son John, Ariel 500 outfit, Colmore Revistment.

[4stroke]

Lets hope the rules and reg's for the ongoing National twinshock championship are robust and detailed enough to stop this happening with Twinshocks!

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guys,

Just copied below, for the "Colmore Revistment Page" on Pre 65,I will click that back up for you too.

 

Do you think that this type of event is the way to get the old bikes back out?

 

Hi Guy's,

What a stunning day out, the Stratford club gave us. A tour around the beautiful Cotswold Countryside passing through lanes that I had not been along since the sixties, but most of them still jogged memories of that time (on one narrow lane I remember Ron Doug, Dan and myself, practising our sidecar racing skills, using all of the lane and sometimes the banks as well, it is only a miracle that we all came out of the lane without injury). The route took us past all the old favourite sections used and even a couple of pubs, and the lunch break gave us a chance to catch up with a few old friends, eventually arriving at Camp, where it seemed as if we were in a time warp. Same old faces of works riders from sixties same old banter and comradeship, same sounds from the bikes, and the strong smell of Castrol "R".
Then the greatest pleasure of walking up one of my all time favourite sections, Camp, with memories from the past flooding back, as we reached our vantage point, the sound of Ron's Ariel crack up, sent shivers down my spine. The anticipation grew as the crescendo of rev's got louder at the bottom of the hill, and the site of the plot coming around the dog leg being ridden at the same old pace and with the same old skill, as the lad had when he was younger was astounding, the determination on his face said it all, as it did with all of the boys that rode up the hill that day, A superb ride from Gordon Jackson on a machine he had only sat on short time before his ride was amazing. Thank you Stars of the past, and thank you to all the hard work the boys of the Stratford club put in.
Wright'y can we have it again next year? All of us old boys would love it, and we won't be here in another 100 years.     

Regards Charlie.

[old trials fanatic]

Lets hope the rules and reg's for the ongoing National twinshock championship are robust and detailed enough to stop this happening with Twinshocks!

Bit late it's already happening.

[4stroke]

It works in some classes of car racing.

[woody]

Hi,

 

The regs need a simple first clause:

 

"Any machine entered for this event should be available for sale, in the state in which it is ridden, to any bidder for £1500 in the Finish area of the trial."

 

Then nobody would waste a fortune on trick alloy bits, etc., etc.

 

A bit conservative when a standard TLR Honda costs a minimum £2k....

 

I've just rebuilt a 1970 Sherpa, no fancy bits, just a straightforward rebuild, no trick alloy bits. Only concession to modern components is a tubeless back rim. Not even electronic ignition.  The bike cost me £600. It needed a full engine rebuild which these days is around £500 (pistons are £150, rod kits are £150 plus rebore and crank assembly costs, all new bearings, gaskets, seals - another £120 on top of this if cylinder needs relining)

 

Cost of bike plus full engine rebuild - £1150 so far

 

Then new bars, wheel builds, cables, levers, tyres, frame powder coat and some polishing and re-chroming - another £500

 

Increases overall cost to £1650

 

Petrol tank repaired, lined and painted, new seat unit as original too butchered  -  another £200

 

Increases overall cost to £1850

 

These costs are pretty generic to most bikes if rebuilt fully. Yes a few quid can be saved by not indulging in painting / polish / re-chrome and using second hand levers / bars / tyres and not rebuilding wheels if they are solid enough, but you're still looking at around £8 - £900 for a mechanical rebuild to get it fit for use in a trial plus the cost of the bike and you can't get many bikes for £600 now no matter what condition they're in

 

Compulsory purchase at £1500 over my dead body...

 

I suspect you wouldn't have many entries at a trial with that in the rule book

 

[breagh]

Aye your right I've this standard 340 Bultaco costing me about £2k and it;s still a bag of spanners probably needs about another £500 to make it rideable.

 

Surely a simple rule is all machines should be as standard as resonably practical?

 

[jon v8]

A bit conservative when a standard TLR Honda costs a minimum £2k....

 

I've just rebuilt a 1970 Sherpa, no fancy bits, just a straightforward rebuild, no trick alloy bits. Only concession to modern components is a tubeless back rim. Not even electronic ignition.  The bike cost me £600. It needed a full engine rebuild which these days is around £500 (pistons are £150, rod kits are £150 plus rebore and crank assembly costs, all new bearings, gaskets, seals - another £120 on top of this if cylinder needs relining)

 

Cost of bike plus full engine rebuild - £1150 so far

 

Then new bars, wheel builds, cables, levers, tyres, frame powder coat and some polishing and re-chroming - another £500

 

Increases overall cost to £1650

 

Petrol tank repaired, lined and painted, new seat unit as original too butchered  -  another £200

 

Increases overall cost to £1850

 

These costs are pretty generic to most bikes if rebuilt fully. Yes a few quid can be saved by not indulging in painting / polish / re-chrome and using second hand levers / bars / tyres and not rebuilding wheels if they are solid enough, but you're still looking at around £8 - £900 for a mechanical rebuild to get it fit for use in a trial plus the cost of the bike and you can't get many bikes for £600 now no matter what condition they're in

 

Compulsory purchase at £1500 over my dead body...

 

I suspect you wouldn't have many entries at a trial with that in the rule book

Its even worse if you look at building an Ariel or AJS etc, its even more costly. There is no way I would sell my AJS - even for £10,000,which it clearly isn't worth - because of all the time and effort it takes to get a bike to run like it. You can sell time - but you cant buy it....

It all comes back to sensible sections to suit the bikes and riders.