guys Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 The raptor footrests and hangers are also approximately 35mm further to the rear axle than standard which tends to lighten the front end and move rider weight to the rear. Good luck. I suppose you've got a shorter brake pedal with that, or do you have extremely large feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betabonkers Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 It took me a while in the mud but would never go back, don't underestimate first gear, if you Rev it hard enough it will go up most things, definitely takes a bit to learn though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 It took me a while in the mud but would never go back, don't underestimate first gear, if you Rev it hard enough it will go up most things, definitely takes a bit to learn though. I had to hook 2nd on Thursday for a section? unheard of!!!! rev its nuts off and feed the clutch in steady for the first 6 foot or so and keep it lit, she'll go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betabonkers Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 I had to hook 2nd on Thursday for a section? unheard of!!!! rev its nuts off and feed the clutch in steady for the first 6 foot or so and keep it lit, she'll go up.2nd gear !!! Wash your mouth out young man. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hi Toneh,my point would be all the lads that have been about for donkeys won't have much bother adapting to the old 4rt Most like myself have ridden everything from a Lambretta to a Tiger 100 off road a some stage and can adapt to what they have. Two years is still well down the learning curve really need to give it time. No way is a 4rt as easy to ride as the average two stroke,haven;t got one but I do have a twin cam Scorpa only the old hands can make much off it when they have a play. If a good result was my main concern I would stick to the strokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Yes spot on that's what it seems like the raga would spin it's self out of trouble or Up a step where the 4rt needs to be ridden , with more rider input if you know what I mean I have found if I'm more agressive with the 4rt I get more success at climbs and stuff like steps but that's going against what I've read or told , steady pace ride on the throttle , but I feel the agressive method is somtimes getting me in trouble You're right in using the aggressive approach as they do need to be ridden hard in mud. If the mud is deep or without a bottom to provide some sort of traction the mont will never go through it by making it spin, as you would on the raga. Its difficult to adapt to riding in the mud, but once you find the technique it'll become easier to practice. The best way is to avoid the muddy trials altogether! Once you have the bike at full chat and spinng, at the point of when you think all hope is lost and your not going to get up there, shut off with your weight over the back and it WILL grip, wanting to stand you on the back wheel. You've then got to feed the power back in to carry on that momentum. The 4rt grips on the overrun. Its tricky learn, but satisfying when you get it right. it will take time, a lot of time but stick with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) Reading the last few posts about extreme revving in first gear and I think I will stick with my gasgas 300 I did try a 4rt back in 07 for about 9 months and found the steering, suspension and brakes the best, but that engine I could not master, not enough response to control the front wheel and no grip on greasy banks at all. You do not see many (any) being ridden down here in the mud at a good level, just because you have a Honda does not make you Toni Bou. Edited July 11, 2015 by collyolly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneh Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 Just got back from macc trial and now have mixed feelings Started off shocking trying the nice and smooth method and it was shocking , to the point where I wanted to pack in and go home So changed to the angry don't mess about approach and I felt better It was a bit muddy and light rain but not proper slippy stuff Last lap dropped 3 So don't feel so bad now , it's obviously my lack of skill more than anything maybe I'm expecting far to much to soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercoben12 Posted July 11, 2015 Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) we had an 09 4rt standard for about half a year. as people have said on here it requires revs in the wet. great bike i thought, even though i never rode proper events on it as im not old enough for acu yet i practiced for probably over 30 hours on it, mainly in mud, hills, roots, cambers , ditches etc. suspension is far superior to others. just as your finding at the start i couldnt get the knack of getting grip, and we live in possibly the muddiest place in England when wet. i found the technique that some say on here of being really smooth with no clutch doesnt work if you start doing inters or expert sections when wet. i found you really have to be aggressive and rag it to grip. if you try the smooth no clutch method in the section you explained i found you start to spin and slow down and basically stop moving and just sit there spinning. using 3rd and revving the nuts of it and clutching it like you would on the gasser it really does fly and once your moving the clutch can be left out and it will continue to grip really well even lifting the front up. once you get this method it does work really well. awesome noise too ! in some situations where there was extreme mud where you litterally plough through it with a big hill ahead i found 4th also works well with lots of revs haha. loved that bike and shame we had to sell it. seriously considering one for my next bike once im old enough... Edited July 11, 2015 by shercoben12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 It took me over a year before i got frustrated enough to sell. It would probably be worth speaking/watching 4rt riders and see where you are going wrong. Most people and fans of the bike will say once grip is lost its very difficult to get back. Where are you in the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Lovely bikes to ride but marmite sums them up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) When I read the headline Help Swapped From Gas Gas To 4RtI thought to myself “ Raga is posting on here” LOL Edited July 13, 2015 by billyt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Most people and fans of the bike will say once grip is lost its very difficult to get back. I find the same, must be me However watching very good riders @ ssdt & Scott on 4RT's they do seem to be expending more effort getting the bike through the sections than their counterparts on 2T's Shame because they are lovely bikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted July 12, 2015 Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I've not really realised what I've been doing until a few people have pointed it out. Aggression is obviously a key to riding the bike which I have realised I do, and as John said, shutting the throttle will pretty much always end in a recovery procedure to stop you throwing the fatlass over your head even in the deepest and slippiest mud section. I practiced winding her up and running the engine down and letting out the clutch on a very slippy bank and she went straight up as if it was dry. Possibly the aggression is to do with the size and weight of the 4rt compared to the 2 strokes but once you get that riding style into your head things become much easier, tense up and only input small movements things don't work nearly as well. As Timp said, these bikes are marmite, there is little or no in-between. I struggled for months with the first 4rt but persevered and it paid off to a point where I simply wouldn't swap at all now. Edited July 12, 2015 by the addict 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneh Posted July 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2015 Went to ketton quarry trial today on the back of macctrials last night so fair bit of time riding the last couple of days Had a heavy rain shower and it turned the place into thick gloop, the sort that stops the front wheel turning So I thought well nows the time to get stuck in and just ride Lots of throttle weight back and off you go , even made the fatal mistake of hesitating and the bottom of a steep slippy climb , not to worry , loads of throttle weight back , yep it gripped went into outer space landed twisted the forks in the yolks and other bits of superficial damage But on the upside I'm pretty happy now I know it will grip as well as most other stuff If you give it plenty of stick and have faith The only thing I've got to learn now is not to panic and keep it under control when I reach the top of a hill at 300 mph But I'm sure that'll come with time 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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