crazybond700 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) No perfect market exists (and trial is not near it). Without perfect market the rules for perfect market do not count. Making a sherco (or whatever brand) 1 euro cheaper does not change the volume sold (to 100%). Only a derivative of this idea is happening in the real world, and factors differ and are not totally clear for the consumers. E.g. a honda and a (lets say) GG at the same price, some people would go for the 4 stroke Honda, others for the GG (me). It would be interesting to see this differences in e.g. sherco and sherpa, what happens if you make one 100 euro cheaper or more expansive. But what is happening; a customer has more choice, and (most often) only buys one bike. Changes are every buyer of a TRS or vertigo is a ex GG, Honda etc rider. So keeping prices the same, volume gets eaten away with more competition. Buying a bike is emotion, not rationality, so ... bladibla Edited March 14, 2016 by crazybond700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 yes. Sound reasoning there, well put. So with more competition bikes should cost more till volume reduces economies of scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.lucas Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I don't think Honda, Beta, or Sherco/Scorpa will have anything to worry about anytime soon. Perhaps prices will drop a bit after a few years if the new companies don't go broke. Well, except Honda, they'll charge whatever because people will pay more. Either way, best of luck to any TRS customers, hopefully spares are still available down the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 No nigel the beta ,sherco/scorpa aren,t any cheaper (mont is mind). BUT if J/gas fail and Trs and the infant new GG venture dies again it only leaves 4 options for the buyer. Vertigo & its stupid (in my view) no p/x rule wont sell enough to dent those 4. So limited choices means prices go up cause if you want to play you have to pay!!! Ergo if the above mentioned all thrive which I hope they do & ossa come back,then our choice is doubled hence no one manufacturer can put a huge increase on its prices cause we could buy something else.Kinda obvious.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 No nigel the beta ,sherco/scorpa aren,t any cheaper (mont is mind). BUT if J/gas fail and Trs and the infant new GG venture dies again it only leaves 4 options for the buyer. Vertigo and its stupid (in my view) no p/x rule wont sell enough to dent those 4. So limited choices means prices go up cause if you want to play you have to pay!!! Ergo if the above mentioned all thrive which I hope they do and ossa come back,then our choice is doubled hence no one manufacturer can put a huge increase on its prices cause we could buy something else.Kinda obvious.. Sorry confused now? In one post you say its more competitive reduce prices in the other monts charge what they want and beta sherco still the same? Which is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 You might want to read it again!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 ... If theres only one or two manufacturers of anything the product is generally expensive. ... the beta ,sherco/scorpa aren,t any cheaper (mont is mind). BUT if J/gas fail and Trs and the infant new GG venture dies again it only leaves 4 options for the buyer. Vertigo and its stupid (in my view) no p/x rule wont sell enough to dent those 4. So limited choices means prices go up cause if you want to play you have to pay!!! Ergo if the above mentioned all thrive which I hope they do and ossa come back,then our choice is doubled hence no one manufacturer can put a huge increase on its prices cause we could buy something else.Kinda obvious.. To me that indicates if we keep everything and gain the missing two it theoretically gets cheaper if it stays the current 4 then it will stay about the same or will go up... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 That's about it jonnyc21. If you have 50 manufacturers then no one of them can be wildly more expensive or cheaper than the other 49. If you only have 3 manufacturers they can charge what they like,cause if we want/need the product we will pay no matter what.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) That's about it jonnyc21. If you have 50 manufacturers then no one of them can be wildly more expensive or cheaper than the other 49. If you only have 3 manufacturers they can charge what they like,cause if we want/need the product we will pay no matter what.. Thats how it works in perfect market conditions. If you make it one euro cheaper you go banktrupt, if you make it one euro more expensive nobody buys. Howerever, like mentioned before, those markets dont exists, and the ''rules'' or conditions for this do not account for the trial market: full information -- haha information and trial manufacturers no market leaders to set prices non intervention by governments -- Spain? no entry or exit bariers -- will you start up a trial factory tomorow? Equal acces to production factors Profit maximalisation -- e.g. Honda has the ability to keep producing even if its not profitable. no externalities Most of all, a trials bike, is not a homogeneous product. Even though they are all trials bikes. Some people like a 4 stroke, others 2 stroke. People like brands, one favors this, another favors that. Trials market is more something like a oligopoly, although it does not meet all criteria (again no market does, those are theoretical) Edited March 16, 2016 by crazybond700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 So has this thread turned into an economics lesson for the Dabster? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Being half a yorkshireman i dont need any economics lessons, ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Being half a yorkshireman i dont need any economics lessons, ta. Well if you were a full one, you wouldn't have asked this question in the first place 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I agree the perfect market does not exist,however the point still stands..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I agree the perfect market does not exist,however the point still stands..... which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Only you think more than 1 been made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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