metisse Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 A little sarcastic tongue in cheek......50 year old ex schoolboy trials rider doing the best he can still,riding non stop and resisting going over to the dark side of stop...where I would then need a clutch and brakes.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Quite a rapid and substantial response to my initial post. Some seem to have mixed up the cables vs hydraulics debate with discs vs drums. I certainly favour discs over drums. My view is that for the very few top riders hydraulics probably give a degree of control not available with cables but this extra control is not so applicable to non stop sections. My overall preference is for cables, lower initial cost, lighter, more robust and easier to fix in the field. We still use cables for the throttle control, pretty important in trials. No sign of a potentiometer on the twistgrip even on Vertigo, Ossa or Mont / Honda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heffergm Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 Wow... I nominate this for "old fart thread of the year"! Seems like a moot point to me. New bikes use hydraulics. They aren't going to go back to cables, so what are we debating? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Cable / hydraulic discs were tried on the 303 /243 fantics and quickly sent to the bin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Wow... I nominate this for "old fart thread of the year"! Seems like a moot point to me. New bikes use hydraulics. They aren't going to go back to cables, so what are we debating? If the "old farts " want to get dewie eyed about clutch cable let them. What are you hanging about here for, there's nothing to see, move along. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrmad Posted September 10, 2015 Report Share Posted September 10, 2015 Having worked on my beta and fixing almost everything over the past year, haven't had many problems with hydraulics apart from expired master cylinder rubbers and bleeding the brakes when replacing them, a nightmare to bleed! But the clutch and brakes have never failed me in a section or in practice, and that is practice at least once a week and generally 2 to 3 trials a month. I've also ridden a friends ty175 and his clutch/ front brake is as light as the beta, don't ask me how! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evoalien Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yes, it called Evolution!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 At the risk of not reading the entire thread I will post my answer. I have ridden trials for many years and have used both cable and hydraulic controls and in order to ride trials we do not NEED hydraulics. But having hydraulics makes riding trials: more controlable more comfortable more fun less strenuous on the hands more responsive Please add more to the list of what hydraulics does for the experience of riding trials. and yes it would be a dream come true to ride a vintage no-stop event on a TY175 running perfect with hydraulic clutch, and hydraulic brakes (disc preferred) (Many Enduro riders have/converted to hydraulic clutches) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob214 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 tell you what when you old goats go back to corresponding by chiseling your responses on granite slabs i'll go back to cable controls. not......... you can't unlearn technology and progress. sorry i just don't believe the good old days were so wonderful that we need to go back. i'm 53 and would not want any bike i had back in my youth other than to sell it for a lot more money than i paid for it to someone who wants to relive their past. those bikes were not that great in my eyes compared to what we ride today. just my opinion. also regards to the old days of no stop trials, when i watch almost all of the lower class riders up to about advanced level the vast majority ride the sections without stopping. from advanced all the way to the WTC it's the opposite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I'm 50, the bike I enjoy riding most is 65 years old. With decent,well lubed cables it is a joy to ride. Why anyone would want to fit disc brakes and a hydraulic clutch to a TY175 is beyond me.The clutch is for engaging a gear,or changing gears,(Though I rarely bother for that - Burman and Yamaha boxes are so easy to use) Once into a section the clutch should not be needed. Modern trials on pogo sticks I guess is different.Maybe they need the use of a clutch, I celebrate that we are all different,modern trials leave me cold... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm 50, the bike I enjoy riding most is 65 years old. With decent,well lubed cables it is a joy to ride. Why anyone would want to fit disc brakes and a hydraulic clutch to a TY175 is beyond me.The clutch is for engaging a gear,or changing gears,(Though I rarely bother for that - Burman and Yamaha boxes are so easy to use) Once into a section the clutch should not be needed. Modern trials on pogo sticks I guess is different.Maybe they need the use of a clutch, I celebrate that we are all different,modern trials leave me cold... We are different, but bernies use of the clutch in the late 70's and 80's is not a recent thing. cant understand why you like riding a bike that was 30 years old when you were 15? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm 50, the bike I enjoy riding most is 65 years old. With decent,well lubed cables it is a joy to ride. Why anyone would want to fit disc brakes and a hydraulic clutch to a TY175 is beyond me.The clutch is for engaging a gear,or changing gears,(Though I rarely bother for that - Burman and Yamaha boxes are so easy to use) Once into a section the clutch should not be needed. Modern trials on pogo sticks I guess is different.Maybe they need the use of a clutch, I celebrate that we are all different,modern trials leave me cold... Disc brakes would make it so the bike would actually slow down on the way down a hill, also no need to take the wheels off and clean/sand the brake shoes/drums if I ride through a stream so that the brakes don't rust up. Ease of use of the clutch, less arm pump = more enjoyable day out for a ride Slipping the clutch while turning gives better control through the turn and the ability to turn tighter. Shifting to higher gear for the big hill mid-section would be easier. Just a couple quick examples why I personally would want to fit hydraulics and disc brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Nigel, its quite simple - as I said my AJS is the bike I enjoy riding most. Several reasons for that,the way it grips,steers,sounds,looks,holds its value... One of the best bits is getting a lower score than riders on springers,twinshocks and pogo sticks on the same route. That bike will find grip with a knackered IRC with 8psi in it. It is only big rocks or steps that defeat it,luckily we have mostly mud and roots in the South West where I ride. Zippy, fitting disc brakes to a TY175 ? Yes,they would work better but then the suspension would not be good enough, or it would be too heavy or not enough power - just go buy a Gas Gas,be alot easier... My TY250 has a light clutch even with an old cable on it that has seen better days,any lighter and it would get pulled in brushing past branches etc,which wouldnt help.I'm a bit lardy and not very fit, but I manage to ride long trials without "arm pump". I also stated that I celebrate that we are all different,tis a good thing - I dont like rugby,football or cricket either... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 My overall preference is for cable, lower capital cost, easier to fix particularly in the field and more robust. Main advantage of hydraulics is that they are self adjusting but that tends to make people ignore maintenance and end up with difficult to sort problems. Problem with fitting bikes with cables is that people perceive hydraulics to be "better" even if a full analysis showed overall that cables were better. Things seen as out of fashion or old technology do not sell (guns maybe excepted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 My overall preference is for cable, lower capital cost, easier to fix particularly in the field and more robust. Main advantage of hydraulics is that they are self adjusting but that tends to make people ignore maintenance and end up with difficult to sort problems. Problem with fitting bikes with cables is that people perceive hydraulics to be "better" even if a full analysis showed overall that cables were better. Things seen as out of fashion or old technology do not sell (guns maybe excepted) Two things,why do you suggest on one thread a maintenance issue but choose to ignore it on another (did rim/hydrulics). How possibly could hydraulics be changed on 2015 bikes for cables? Modern brakes with hydraulics and discs are so much better why wouldnt you want them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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