dadof2 Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I ve heard that most pro teams will be hydraulic discs by next year. You could very easily know more about pro cycling than I do, I just have a casual interest but I would rather watch the TDF or Vuelta than WTC. From what I have heard the switch to discs either mechanical or hydraulic is likely to be some time off, if ever. There are quite a few arguments against cable discs and even more against hydraulic discs for tours. On motorcycles the change to discs and hydraulics was a change from one hub based system to another. The switch from a rim to hub system has a lot more variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 You couldnt take more interest in Cycling and less in trials then? If you can watch the whole of Stage 8 of the vuelta then youre a better man than I am. Give me any section in the wtc over that anytime, and I am a cycling fan. Lets see who's right re discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Trials bikes should ditch cables and hydraulics in exchange for electric controls like the F16. Bet Rossberg wishes he had a old fashioned throttle link either cable or hydraulic rather than "fly by wire" electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Bet Rossberg wishes he had a old fashioned throttle link either cable or hydraulic rather than "fly by wire" electric. You seriously think that a throttle cable is better in F1 because it "wouldn't" stick or be effected by the g forces seen in an F1 car? Dude... really? Bet Dan Forbes and Glen Edwards wished they had electronics on their YB-49 rather than the "old fashion" control based system. Again picking and choosing your supporting facts isn't working. Cables aren't the answer. --Biff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Picking and choosing facts to suit an argument, dadilyoff mo im afraid..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey125 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) I’ve never really looked at the general section on the site before. Wow there is some entertaining stuff on here. Having actually read through all the posts on this one here’s my summary based on my experience and opinions, thought I’d get that in before anyone jumped down my neck! I don’t ride trials much these days mainly focus on road racing. A couple of years ago it was the 40th anniversary of the schoolboy club I started at so I pulled my old Fantic 309 out of the shed and my brother got his GasGas Contact out. Unfortunately about half way through the day my Fantic started messing about. Eventually stopping altogether when the coil died. I finished the trial on my brothers GasGas. When we were riding regularly I would never have rated the GasGas over the Fantic, but to jump on having not ridden either bike in 15 years the GasGas was light years ahead of the Fantic. Not surprising considering the age difference of the two bikes and that the rear unit on the Fantic had also blown a seal, but the biggest difference was the clutch. The hydraulic clutch on the GasGas was light, precise and easy to use the Fantic felt heavy, grabby and uncontrolled by comparison. I know that a cable clutch can be made every bit as nice as hydraulic one. Agreed if you get a problem with hydraulic one during an event it can be a show stopper, by the same token it can become quite and engineering exercise to get a cable one right. A well setup drum brake can be an absolute joy to use, but much like a cable clutch it can be a pain to setup and ultimately more work to maintain. As for cable operated discs they were tried in the 60’s and 70’s. They didn’t make it to the 80’s for a reason. Some pedal bikes use cable discs, they are better than rim brakes but not even close to hydraulic discs. I would suspect that by the time you’ve made a drum brake as good as a disc in terms of performance and out of the box reliability it would cost as much as a disc to manufacture. So do you need hydraulics no, are they going to make you a better rider no, are they a general benefit to the masses riding yes. Technology moves on and gets cheaper as it does. Best make the most of it rather than wishing for things to go backwards. If you enjoy doing lots of fiddling and fettling and like the satisfaction of making something work right and are happy riding non stop events and routes stick with old technology and enjoy. Equally if you want to ride the latest bikes and try to bounce up 6 foot rocks then great. Trying/wishing for things to go backwards, or wanting everyone to think the same as you is never going anywhere. As for cycling no bikes used in UCI road events will have disc breaks as the UCI don't allow it. Cycling is one of the most regulated sports going. It took years to get discs allowed in cyclocross. They will be introduced into road events in the next few years. The issue they have is nothing to do with teams experimenting with discs because no one is using them. The Mavic support vehicles already have to carry two different types of rear wheels to accommodate the different gear systems but only one type of front wheel. The issue they are trying to resolve is getting all the teams and manufacturers to agree on a set of rules that will make disc brakes as easily interchangeable as rim brakes. Once they have got that sorted the entire professional peloton will be going to disc brakes. Edited October 12, 2015 by smokey125 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob214 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 poor smokey125, now your sucked into this crap too. and bless your heart your trying logic with this lot 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigh88 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 If I was in the market for a brand new bike and one was being produced with cable disc brakes or drum brakes it would be instantly crossed off the list. Clutch maybe wouldn't be a deal breaker but would take hydraulic every time personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Smokey. Only partially correct re pro cycling and discs. http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-first-sighting-of-disc-brakes-in-the-professional-peloton-186666 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey125 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Not an issue rob it just amazes me people think like this. I race Vintage, Classic and modern bikes and like all for different reasons. To keep that old stuff running we rely on modern technology, without it we would end up having to stop running them. Nigel, I was aware of this, didn’t want to go too far into the cycling thing and try to explain it. The article does highlight nicely how the UCI works for changes in technology like this. Based on how the UCI normally operate I would be very surprised if you see them being used at any of the grand tours next year. I wait to be proven wrong on that now! I’m looking forward to it happening. I’m hoping there will be a flood of cheap second hand bikes and wheels come onto the market as people upgrade. Doubt I’ll be that luck though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 The funniest thing about this topic is despite the majority clearly favouring hydraulics, Its a fair bet that ever poster is still using a cable for their trials bike throttle - probably the most vital control. The comment about Rossburg was in the same context as riders when having problems with hydraulics express a wish to return the days of the TY mono shocks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 The funniest thing about this topic is despite the majority clearly favouring hydraulics, Its a fair bet that ever poster is still using a cable for their trials bike throttle - probably the most vital control. The comment about Rossburg was in the same context as riders when having problems with hydraulics express a wish to return the days of the TY mono shocks The reason that there is still a throttle cable but no cable for the clutch or brakes is simple; The brakes and clutch provide extremely important feedback through the controls. For the brakes the feedback is pressure variation under the foot or against the lever. The important feedback from the clutch is the accuracy with which the rider can feel the point of engagement which is marked by a rapid reduction in lever pressure as felt by the riders fingers. With both these systems, feedback is better with hydraulics. In the case of the throttle cable, the only feedback is from compressing the slide return spring. The force from the spring is only there to overcome friction so the throttle self-closes. In the quest for better emissions, reliability and performance, the future of two stroke trials bikes includes electronic fuel injection and this will consign the humble throttle cable to oblivion. Maybe not next year or the year after, but eventually it will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey125 Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 The comment about Rossburg was in the same context as riders when having problems with hydraulics express a wish to return the days of the TY mono shocks That has got to be the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. I had a TY250 mono, it was a great bike I would get another one at the drop of a hat if I could afford it but there is no way anyone who's owned one would get dewy eyed and nostalgic about the front brake on them no matter how big the problems were with hydraulics! Not unless they had gone senile! That's the problem with nostalgia people forget quite how bad some things were. You'd spend more time working on the front brake of a TY mono after each event than you would after 6 months of riding with hydraulic discs. I'm still smiling now, that's really brightened up my day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sorry the original question was do we need hydraulics. I might have missed something here but im pretty sure there is no trials bike fitted with a hydraulic throttle ? So why is this relevant. Last year I owned a pinky yam and a gas gas pro at the same time. No matter what the hydraulic problems i wouldn't swap the gasser for the yam. By the way the Yamaha had a hydraulic disc fitted from 1991. Not a drum, not a cable disc but a Hydraulic Disc. Prior to this both John Shirt and Talon were making aftermarket kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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