steve fracy Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) Im not how you interpreted that I suggested your not worth speaking to. I don't think you truly understand the scope of the SPORT in Canada yet.I am talking about competition, and the importance of it in our country. The importance of having an organized faction of competition, Provincial and National events that are prestigious and meaningful, that will in the long term continue to provide us with a team to go to the Tdn each year and make strides in becoming better riders. I don't need to compare anything as the CMA is the official sanctioning body for Canada under the FIM who run World Trials, and the Tdn . That's the only thing I need to know. The TAC was created to implement these goals. Perhaps further communication is better over the phone as there seems to be mis-understanding through print. Steve Edited October 7, 2015 by steve fracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Sounds good but eventually I would like to have it recorded here (or on the CMA webpage). It really comes down to what are the CMAs plans and how any funding will be used to drive the sport and exactly where that drive is heading. I believe I am not the only one who would like to see the sport really take off but feel tossing money at something without seeing the plan is a tough ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Well all I can tell you Michael is what the plans the TAC have that would be funded by the CMA. Rider training, from beginner to Pro. Funding for Provincial and National Championships. This would include incentives for riders who would have to travel long distance who want to ride the events. Finally, we are working on a National funding program for the Tdn. A real consistent, concerted effort, to raise funds annually to help send our team. All clubs across Canada can be involved. A few different ideas have been tossed around, and even the idea of having a "National Tdn day". A designated calendar day where all clubs who participate who hold a trial on the exact same day across the country, and all proceeds from those events would go directly in to the Tdn fund. Hope that answers some questions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I actually struggle with this in many of the sports I am involved in (Trials, Biathlon, Sailing, Paddling) there always seems to be a bit of a struggle between high performance athletes and recreational athletes. It seems common that the high performance group would rather not fund the recreational group and vice versa. To me it is important that both groups recognize the value of each other and work together to further the sport. It isn't easy but IMO the more we can work together the better. I do recognize that all the members of the TAC are highly acclaimed trials riders. If you truly want to reach out to more potential riders you may want to consider folding in few people who have had success in landing large sponsorship deals or developing world class sport programs. I am just thinking there is much more to what you are trying to achieve than being great riders and sport ambassadors. I am very glad to see this discussion going in a more constructive and positive direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Trials in Canada is way too small to think there is a battle between grass roots riders who just love to ride and have fun on a Sunday, and those who aspire to do something great. Your right we all need to work together. Thus my continuous argument. We have many constructive ideas and plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 You just need to be sharing them... forums like this can be a great tool for building the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Some thoughtful words are certainly coming out of this discussion, and a couple that I feel the need to comment on: Michael's point that National level riders, or those aspiring to be top flight riders not being happy about funding recreational riders is correct; in addition, many recreational riders do not understand the importance of funding the riders that aspire to higher levels of competition, but the use of the word "fund" may cause confusion about the greater question, and that being support.Top flight National or International riders need support in terms of cash (funds) and the local clubman riders, or recreational riders need profile. It is expensive to ride nationally and exponentially more so to ride internationally, so the support for the few riders that do comes mostly in the form of money. Recreational or club level riders have limited expenses in relation to those high level competition riders, and have different concerns, the most prominent being access to riding areas. Access is a hydra, in that land ownership and competing user base add up to fighting the access issue on many different fronts, this is where having a strong national and international group of riders can support the clubman. There is nothing that gets the attention of governments, local, provincial or federally like hosting high level sporting events, and it is commonly these groups that we need to negotiate with for the access and land rights. We need to be seen as relevant, and deserving in land use discussions. The top level riders can add this "profile" to the local club riders in ways that others cannot. When these the various groups of riders understand the greater good, and how each contributes to the community as a whole, we can get a lot accomplished for the sport of trials in Canada, and who knows, maybe create a blueprint for trials elsewhere. Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 maybe this can help http://www.mototrials.com/about/history-of-natc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I'm glad were all friends again , Ya canooks ... The sport we love must survive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) maybe this can help http://www.mototrials.com/about/history-of-natc That was a long but very interesting read. If it is truly the North American Trials Council and not the USTC, then maybe we could have NATC events in Canada like the way Canada has a supercross in Toronto each year. It may be we really don't need CMA or WTC. Certainly sounds like the meetings are great fun and allow people of many different skills and abilities participate. Certainly another option to consider. Edited October 10, 2015 by michael_t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) There is nothing that gets the attention of governments, local, provincial or federally like hosting high level sporting events, and it is commonly these groups that we need to negotiate with for the access and land rights. We need to be seen as relevant, and deserving in land use discussions. The top level riders can add this "profile" to the local club riders in ways that others cannot. Not sure I agree 100% with that... I have worked with all levels of industry and government (municipal, provincial and national) to promote off road riding land access and insurance coverage. It may be that Canada is a little unique in this respect as our current Prime Minister's wife rides a dirt bike. The Nova Scotia Government heavily funded a York university study to show that dirt biking was an excellent form of activity. The Canadian Government has spent over $1m developing trails (through the National Trails Coalition). I am not sure about other Provinces but in NS as the head of the Off Road Riders Association I worked with the government to see the money was shared fairly 3 ways between the Motorcycle Association, ATV association, and Snowmobile association. I am a little disappointed if people are not interested in understanding exactly who the MCC is but they are heavily funded (must be over $1m annually) by the big bike manufactures to promote recreational and sport motorcycling in the country. Just 2 weeks ago I was speaking to the regional manager for Kawasaki and he stated that Kawasaki sees Nova Scotia as a model for other provinces based on the ground roots upwelling of support for off road motorcycling in the Province. None of this has anything to do with top level riders (just as the reason I am sponsored is not for being a top level rider) it has everything to do with supporting the increasing number of people who just want to get out and have fun on their bikes. It seems companies and the government agencies are willing to sponsor people for their performance in growing access to recreation and sport (not just riding well). Please don't under estimate the power and knowledge of the novice rider community in this country it isn't only the top riders and events that have what it takes we really need to work together. I do agree that having a world round here in NS would get a lot off attention if enough money was spent to really promote it (but I don't see the CMA supporting that). Unfortunately telling a mayor or a minister that we sponsored a rider from BC to go to the TdN would get us little recognition (even if they won). The government would be much happier to hear we sponsored a group of kids to introduce them to a sport that will keep them off the sofa. So for me I really need to see what the CMA plans to do. As I have pointed out, if the money is leaving the Province and no benefit is coming back (the way that some feel the CMA did in the past) then it is a real tough sell. Edited October 10, 2015 by michael_t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I do think it is important to reiterate that I am a strong supporter of all the members of the TAC and the TdN team. I believe they have promoted, sanctioned, and insured great events including a nationals, I was one of the first to contact them when they planned to bring a world class rider to Canada. Just yesterday I found this great article that Christy was a part of http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/two-wheeler-gets-trial-by-fire. I really appreciate that Steve is on this forum and they are all willing to answer my emails and phone calls. What I don't get is how is the CMA supporting all of this? It would be great if the CMA could really get behind this group (maybe they are but just aren't communicating it well). I'm sure the TAC supported our one rider in Rhode Island this year (as his father is on the TAC) but there has been no mention of it or if there was any funding made available to him. On the other hand the MCC supports off road riding across the country including funding all the provincial Off Road Motorcycle association they also financially support the WTC which provides free insurance and a rule book for any club wishing to put on events. The WTC has promoted, sanctioned and insured great events including 2 nationals (East and West). Michel's local club is not affiliated with the CMA but are supported by MCC the their Provincial riding association FQMHR and the WTC, so he had great local support for his trip to Rhode Island (I know there was a good group of supporters that joined him but don't know if funding was made available or not). Some of the clubs affiliated with WTC had training days with reasonably inexpensive national level riders. I really should note that it is really the COHV (the large motorcycle manufactures) that is the greatest funder of the MCC. I guess my point is both groups are doing great stuff the TAC has great ideas and plans that they need to get out to the masses the WTC seems to be much better funded and not demanding financial support from its riders (although the are happy to take it). I am not sure what the next step is in the evolution (or revolution) for trials in this country but happy to see there are people still passionate about putting on events, getting out and riding them and generally building the sport in this great country of ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Some thoughtful words are certainly coming out of this discussion, and a couple that I feel the need to comment on: Michael's point that National level riders, or those aspiring to be top flight riders not being happy about funding recreational riders is correct; in addition, many recreational riders do not understand the importance of funding the riders that aspire to higher levels of competition, but the use of the word "fund" may cause confusion about the greater question, and that being support.Top flight National or International riders need support in terms of cash (funds) and the local clubman riders, or recreational riders need profile. It is expensive to ride nationally and exponentially more so to ride internationally, so the support for the few riders that do comes mostly in the form of money. Recreational or club level riders have limited expenses in relation to those high level competition riders, and have different concerns, the most prominent being access to riding areas. Access is a hydra, in that land ownership and competing user base add up to fighting the access issue on many different fronts, this is where having a strong national and international group of riders can support the clubman. There is nothing that gets the attention of governments, local, provincial or federally like hosting high level sporting events, and it is commonly these groups that we need to negotiate with for the access and land rights. We need to be seen as relevant, and deserving in land use discussions. The top level riders can add this "profile" to the local club riders in ways that others cannot. When these the various groups of riders understand the greater good, and how each contributes to the community as a whole, we can get a lot accomplished for the sport of trials in Canada, and who knows, maybe create a blueprint for trials elsewhere. Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Please understand that the NATC is a much larger entity, but operates within the AMA, much the same way that the TAC is set up to operate under the CMA. Both the AMA and the CMA operate within their respective countries, but under a world wide umbrella of motorcycle sport, the FIM. We are now for the first time ever setup with a winning template to succeed, and, to establish a template from the ground up. It is extremely exciting! There is also the ability of re-establishing the North American Championship ( formerly known as NAMU). WEC,WTC or anything else you wanna talk about is not nor it will be recognized by the FIM. We need to work within the great frame work we have in front of us and stop wasting time and effort on thinking there is a better way...... Its right in front of us. I am excited about Spencer's new club in the Squamish area. please email me Spencer for some scheduling details about your trial for next year, at teamfracy@shaw.ca We will also have some good news very shortly about yet another addition to our Provincial Championship for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Sorry Steve but the more you tell me I that I am wasting my time the less I feel like listening to you. As they say "Lead, follow, or get out of the way"... I guess I will just have to wait and see where you guys lead this as you seem to have little interest in what I am doing or what I might have to offer. Edited October 11, 2015 by michael_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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