michael_t Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The WTC is now on the MCC competition council for motorcycle competition in Canada along with Enduro, Super Bike, and Flat Track. http://www.motorcycling.ca/competition-council/. I really don't think they will be going away any time soon so I guess the question "should we have both" is pointless - like it or not we do have both and hopefully they are both going to work together to grow the sport in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Not sure I agree 100% with that... I have worked with all levels of industry and government (municipal, provincial and national) to promote off road riding land access and insurance coverage. It may be that Canada is a little unique in this respect as our current Prime Minister's wife rides a dirt bike. The Nova Scotia Government heavily funded a York university study to show that dirt biking was an excellent form of activity. The Canadian Government has spent over $1m developing trails (through the National Trails Coalition). I am not sure about other Provinces but in NS as the head of the Off Road Riders Association I worked with the government to see the money was shared fairly 3 ways between the Motorcycle Association, ATV association, and Snowmobile association. Michael, One thing has become quite clear in this discussion, and that being the current environment in each of our provinces. In B.C., we have hikers, mountain bikers, trail runners, trials riders, rock climbers, commercial recreational companies (heli-access for example), and others all "competing" for access to the same landscape; out here there are three different types of users, non-mechanized, mechanized and motorized, and within these, there are various permutations that are acceptable to various degrees by other user groups. To give you a sense of scale, there are about 400 members on the 99 Trials Facebook page, and that covers the entire area from North Vancouver to Pemberton. In Squamish alone there are 4000 members of the Bike Squamish FB page, and this page is almost 99 percent dedicated to mountain biking, add in the Whistler mountain bikers, commercial operators and you can get an idea of the uphill battle that we often face. To generate interest from government in this province everyone does studies looking to demonstrate just how much of an economic driver the sport is; climbers do it, mountain bikers do it, dirt bikers do it, music festivals do it, cross country skiing does it, and the list goes on. Whether I like it or not, the economics of a sport are measures that a government can get behind when they make decisions on how to spend our tax dollars. For example in Squamish the municipal government provides $30,000 a year for trail maintenance with this money going mostly to the local mountain bike trails. In addition, they provide $25,000 per year to support rock climbing. They have also spent $250,000 on wind surfing and sail boarding infrastructure improvements. This money is provided based on studies that demonstrated the economic benefits of these sports to the overall community, Canadian Championships for the wind sports, and some of the biggest mountain biking events in Canada bring thousands of people into our community, and along with them comes the support of local business. I have only painted this picture to support my statement, and to show that the environments that we operate in would appear to be quite different, and would also need different models for regional development. Understanding these differences is the first step that needs to be taken for us to figure out a way to work together going forward. A good exercise for the various factions to undertake? It appears that different models will need to be implemented across this vast country to compensate for the range of issues that need to be addressed. What you have done out in the Maritimes will not likely work here in Sea to Sky country and vice versa, no cookie cutter solutions here, More later Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Hi Spencer, I think you really need to consider what the MCC sponsored BCORMA is doing in BC for the riding community and how much funding they are putting into helping your cause http://bcorma.geovisionenvironmental.com/...I have no idea the level of funding that the CMA is pouring into the BC trials community but I do know I seem to get little in response when I ask what there plans are with respect to investing in NS. Back when I was Pres for NSORRA I met with the BCORMA representatives and the other provincial organizations, in Toronto (MCC paid our expenses) They are a great group of people passionate about working with the Government to support motorized trail use (including Trials). You should call them up you may find that our struggles are not as different as you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Interesting (and well written) editorial posted on the Trials Canada website today... http://www.trialscanada.com/2015-editorial.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Interesting yes. Accurate no! As usual the owner and editor of that website picks and chooses facts that promote HIS story. He is so far removed from the sport, as well as the person who actually runs WTC. There is no disputing the the MCC is real, and the rest of the disciplines mentioned. WTC is not. Also interesting that the minute people are able to access the forum after a long period of time on that site, and then make comments that are not favorable to WTC, the forum is deleted. The editor has NO credibility in the eyes of most people are are actually involved in the sport of trials in Canada. The sport! Competition! Its been clear for quite sometime and no one reads that site because of it. Michael, your an enthusiastic person and sure do a lot in your area. its really too bad you aren't able to spend a bit more time out here and truly understand what is going on. The editor claims to be unbiased, when in fact this is not the case. Neither is the "leader" of the WTC. in fact, his work behind the scenes sometimes borders on bullying in an area where there a ton of good people who are doing good work. BTW, the Cpta and VMC do not hold WTC sanctioned events. There was a club trial in Victoria recently where points were counted towards a series that has nothing to do with anyone but the VMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob j Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Nobody reads the TrialsCanada.com website any more, you say, Steve? So I wonder what the visitors to the site are up to. So far this month (with just 23 days gone) we've had 3,412 visits to the site, from 1,560 different people. And 75% of those visits are from Canada. Maybe they're just looking at the pictures... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I think the fact that Bob has directed the forum to this site instead of continually being accused of being biased is a great move. Administering forums is a real pain in the ass and can be a lot more work than people might think and which Bob got little thanks for. Having Canadian Trials news and classified on Bob's site and the discussion here removes any perceived bias so if you stop and think about it doesn't really support Steve's comments... unless of course Andy is also part of the WTC conspiracy. Edited October 24, 2015 by michael_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 I guess you don't read the stories either. Just because its printed on a website, by the owner who doesn't attend the events, or ride, doesn't mean its factual. Many non factual statements about the CMA throughout the year, from someone who tells people that the WTC will soon be the FIM affiliate for Canada.The WTC-WEC was created by Sean Weisner and aided by Mr. Rhodes for one sole purpose, to try to eliminate the CMA and get the FIM affiliation. if you haven't been told this Michael then you have been lied to as well. There is absolutely no purpose for the WTC in Canada. Why do two elderly men continue to try to deceive people about being involved in a sport, and spread mis-truths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob j Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Steve, I can categorically tell you that it has never been published on TrialsCanada.com that WTC intended to become the Canadian FIM affiliate. That's nonsense -- how could a trials group become the representative of all motorcycle activities for a country? And I must admire your abilities in mind-reading and extra-sensory perception, in that you have been able to determine just what was in Sean Weisner's mind when he helped establish WEC. You should do a little fact-checking before you write this stuff. And what does it matter whether a group is associated with the FIM or not? CSBK (road racing) and CMRA (moto-cross) have enjoyed immense success without any CMA or FIM affiliation. It seems to me that having a choice between different sanctioning bodies is a good thing -- if one particular group enjoys a monopoly, then it never takes long before that monopoly is abused. That's a fact of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 fyi Bob, I don't need to have any special skills. I had a 2hr phone conversation with Sean years ago when this all started, as well as know all info about WTC and what was and is said, and why it was created. No, nothing has ever been published on your site, but I know for a fact that you have told people this. In fact, I had a phone call from someone last Jan as I was on my way to the Vancouver bike show, right after you had told them over the phone, that this was the case about FIM affiliation. Facts. Trials is a small sport in a large country, again, all riders get along really well. We have a National sanctioning body with a mandate to support, help and guide it to success . But yet we have a small group with yourself included that continue to think that somehow spreading lies and trying to undermine other peoples efforts, is helpful to the sport. WTC has no goals, no future, no fees, and no reason to exist now the the TAC is around. Do you know what the NATC is? Do you know how it works? Have you ever attended a meeting? The TAC is designed to act in the same manner as the NATC and work with the National sanctioning body for the success of the sport, under the World governing body for SPORT in trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob j Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 I have not spread any lies, and I am getting rather unhappy with your continued claims that I am a liar. Give it a rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) maybe this can help http://www.mototrials.com/about/history-of-natc Hey Steve you really should give that a read its long but it is worth reading... It seems that NATC did a great job of pulling people together for the benefit of the sport instead of insulting and alienating organizations that had different views. It is very simple for me... when I started nobody in NS was putting on events and I had never been to an event. I reached out and asked what where the pro's and cons of the 2 sanctioning bodies and decided on WTC. I then had a rule book I could use and a $5M insurance policy at my disposal funny thing my brother is a lawyer and instructed my parents that they should not let me invite a bunch of dirt bikers to ride on their property (over what some might consider hazardous areas) without insurance. After I put on events for a few years we grew from 3 or 4 riders to around 20 and I'm not sure if it was because people started to feel sorry for me but sure enough other riders decided if I could put on events then so could they so this year we had 3 other riders putting on events each with landowner permission and insurance coverage. If I went to the current riders and said we are going to do the exact same thing next year but everyone is going to write a $75 cheque to Marilynn (at the CMA) I think the question would be WHY? or maybe WTF? and what will the money be used for? So if way back when it was ploy to overturn the CMA to get the FIM affiliation that is really no longer the case and is now more about just getting more cheap *******s out riding... maybe a simple goal but it is working for us. If the CMA has a master plan for everyone's $75 they need to publish it... If your son is shooting for the TdN team and they want to spend the money on that it would be fine, people could then make an educated decision as to if they felt it was worth supporting or not... I for one am a strong supporter of the TdN team. Maybe all the money goes to pay to the FIM for the affiliation? We just don't know. I do know I'm not a fan of feeling like I am being held hostage by Marilynn's company (the CMA) with no willingness to answer what I feel is a logical question. Edited October 24, 2015 by michael_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Steve, I can categorically tell you that it has never been published on TrialsCanada.com that WTC intended to become the Canadian FIM affiliate. That's nonsense -- how could a trials group become the representative of all motorcycle activities for a country? And I must admire your abilities in mind-reading and extra-sensory perception, in that you have been able to determine just what was in Sean Weisner's mind when he helped establish WEC. You should do a little fact-checking before you write this stuff. And what does it matter whether a group is associated with the FIM or not? CSBK (road racing) and CMRA (moto-cross) have enjoyed immense success without any CMA or FIM affiliation. It seems to me that having a choice between different sanctioning bodies is a good thing -- if one particular group enjoys a monopoly, then it never takes long before that monopoly is abused. That's a fact of life. Bob, did you or didn't you tell someone over the phone back in January that the WTC/MCC would soon be the affiliate for the FIM for Canada? The fact that you seem to be indicating WTC and its affiliates have NO desire to be the official FIM affiliate is NOT truthful.It is the reason that the trials group was started, as it was seen as the final group to complete a so called bid. This of course you are aware of but for some reason are not even sharing that information with the likes of Michael. So I guess you can clear the air then and let us know whether you told someone in January, the the WTC/MCC would soon be the FIM affiliate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted October 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Does anyone know how much a FIM affiliation costs?... it seems the FIM might be to blame for all this upset at the grass roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 good lord! We are here talking about the state of trials in our country, and right now have the biggest opportunity we have ever had in my almost 40yrs of competing. The wheel has already been invented and we need to work together. The only people to blame are ones not wanting to work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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