Pre65 Project Costs

[suzuki250]

I did a silly thing today, I totalled up how much I have spent on my engine rebuild (a Villiers 32a)

Including the buying the engine its cost just over £900 and I still haven’t got an ignition yet!

 

 I didn’t expect it to cost so much, the last time I rebuilt a complete engine it cost less than £300!

Edited October 15, 2015 by suzuki250

[hulmie]

Ouch!! what are you building, my greeves was supposed to be a good one, in the end its had full rebuild on the engine, new ignition,carb that doesn't work!!,New rims+stainless spokes, tyres, leavers, grips, pegs, not a lot of change from a grand. its probably best not to add up all your bills

Edited October 16, 2015 by hulmie

[collyolly]

I had a query from my insurance company about the agreed value of my bike, I then listed all of the component parts, the modifications from standard to make it competitive in today's trials ( ! ) , the list was exhaustive but necessary.

I proved my point and they accepted my valuation, the moral here is price it up before you start or you could end up spending more than the end result is worth although that is not the reason we build these bikes.

[laird387]

Hi,

 

There's nothing like having to deal with an insurance company to make you think carefully about recording and keeping evidence of any costs involved.

 

Many years ago I was returning from the Arbuthnot to my home, in those days, in Welwyn, Herts., with my rigid BSA 350 on a bike rack across the back of my car.  Nearly home, by St Albans, I came off a roundabout on the dual carriageway, round a blind left-hand bend, to find a car and caravan parked across the road at right angles to the traffic flow - he had gone to make a U-turn before realising there was an Armco barrier along the centre division and just stopped. I braked as hard as I could, but hit him amidships between the car and caravan.  That stopped my car completely but the BSA parted company with the bike rack, slid up over the car and landed in a heap on the other side of the  car and caravan.

 

My car was still driveable, so the crumpled bike was lifted back on to the bike rack, tied down, and we limped home.

 

I always did my own repairs, so I kept all the bills for the bits that I had to buy, then sent in a claim to the insurance company simply for the bits.  They immediately queried where was the bill for the repair labour shop, I told them I had done the work myself so had not claimed, they replied that, in that case, I would have to have the machine inspected by an expert assessor to verify that the repairs had been done satisfactorily and that they would write shortly with details of the expert assessor they would nominate.

 

I assumed it was typical insurance company dragging their feet to avoid prompt payment and waited.

 

Within a week my wait was over, a nice crisp letter from them saying - wait for it - "in order to assess the quality of the repair to your classic BSA motorcycle we wish you to contact our independant expert, who will assess the quality of the repair.  Please contact Mr Deryk Wylde and arrange a suitable time for him to assess the repair................."

 

I rang them up and demanded to speak to a director responsible for claims investigation - and shortly after received a letter of apology with a cheque in full settlement of my claim.

 

I suspect you can guess I was not impressed.

 

Cheers

Deryk Wylde 

[villiersprodigy]

My advice is if your going to build a pre 65 up from scratch is to have a figure which you think it will cost the double it.Ive built up several bikes over years for people and that as been the general rule of thumb.

Or buy a bike already done,Im very lucky that i can make componants that i need. If not i`d stick with the modern bikes.

I know of folks that if they had known what it would have cost they wouldn`t have bothered to start with.

Many parts tend to one off made because certain things aren`t remanufactered and thats when it gets

expensive.

[old trials fanatic]

Thats why the Drayton Bantams have been so popular. You try building one to the same standard for £6500 . The Sows Ear project is going to cost a lot more than that but thats me i do know better but rarely follow my own advice   

Edited October 16, 2015 by old trials fanatic

[suzuki250]

Ouch!! what are you building, my greeves was supposed to be a good one, in the end its had full rebuild on the engine, new ignition,carb that doesn't work!!,New rims+stainless spokes, tyres, leavers, grips, pegs, not a lot of change from a grand. its probably best not to add up all your bills

If you did all that for less than a grand, that good going!

 

The motor was for a bantam rolling chassis that I built some time ago, but I’ve had a change of plans.

I’m now after a Greeves that I can fit this motor to, the bantam now has another engine fitted.

Failing that if anyone wants to buy a fully rebuilt 32a motor it may appear in the classifieds shortly…  

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

 

Just take a look at Broony's project on the Twinshock forum.

 

You know it makes sense now-a-days.

 

Regards Charlie.

[Prototype]

Hi guys

 

I started to build Pre-65 trails bike. when started to buy things, soon realize it costly stuff and i cannot continue , now trying to build C15 green leaner

cost is increasing very fast. i believe may be after 20-25 years. these bikes will be for elite only. Sorry no offence , its just my opinion

 

@Charlie

I like Broony and your Mini Super Otter.

 

Regards

JH

 

 

Edited October 19, 2015 by bsa4life

[rusty ken]

 I think we have gone well past the initial intention of pre 65 trials, where you could have an outing on your bike which was no longer competitive enough to get around the sections set for Spanish two strokes (absolutely no disrespect intended!).

 

To build a competitive pre-unit bike I'd expect the following ball park figures;

 

frame, swinging arm, foot rests, etc   £1,500

engine, gearbox & clutch                    £2,000

hubs, rims, etc                                    £1,000 

forks & yokes                                      £1,000

ignition                                                £  500

tank                                                     £  500

and add another £500 for little extras, like bars, levers, mudguards and stays, etc.  which adds up to £7K!

 

I've no doubt that you can do it cheaper. I've put my Matchless together for less than £2k and had a lot of fun building it and doing a few trials, but I need to be realistic about what it can do and my chances of getting through all of sections!

[jon v8]

None of it comes for a fiver any more, I bought a set of handlebar furniture for my "new" C15 project last week. Not including the bars it was still over £100. Building bikes IS expensive,but building engines is expensive even if you do all of the assembly and minor machining/fitting yourself. The basic components often need some final work to make them work as we want them.If you search around for instance its hard to get pistons for a 350 AJS. I spent ages asking everyone I could think of but couldn't get a new,old stock Hepolite piston anywhere.

I had to settle for a JP Australian piston,which was £120 to start with. It seems many don't trust these pistons, but I had little choice - it was that or no bike. I'm lucky in having a very clever contact who was able to lighten and coat the piston,bore the gudgeon pin and make it into a decent bit of kit.I paid for that work in firewood - which I was happy to do,I just wanted a decent piston.

The point I'm making is that its not just a question of spending more money than we used to,sometimes you have to search out clever folk to make things useable - and wait because they are always busy.So when the arguments start about eligibility,have a thought for how many hours someone has spent making,building,testing and modifying that bike - before you even consider money.

[suzuki250]

None of it comes for a fiver any more, I bought a set of handlebar furniture for my "new" C15 project last week. Not including the bars it was still over £100. Building bikes IS expensive,but building engines is expensive even if you do all of the assembly and minor machining/fitting yourself. The basic components often need some final work to make them work as we want them.If you search around for instance its hard to get pistons for a 350 AJS. I spent ages asking everyone I could think of but couldn't get a new,old stock Hepolite piston anywhere.

I had to settle for a JP Australian piston,which was £120 to start with. It seems many don't trust these pistons, but I had little choice - it was that or no bike. I'm lucky in having a very clever contact who was able to lighten and coat the piston,bore the gudgeon pin and make it into a decent bit of kit.I paid for that work in firewood - which I was happy to do,I just wanted a decent piston.

The point I'm making is that its not just a question of spending more money than we used to,sometimes you have to search out clever folk to make things useable - and wait because they are always busy.So when the arguments start about eligibility,have a thought for how many hours someone has spent making,building,testing and modifying that bike - before you even consider money.

 

 

I run a small machine shop, which is very handy building bikes. But it doesn’t seem to stop the price spiralling away!

 

[metisse]

I over the last few days been toying with a new Pre 65 project.. Done a little contacting and adding up on the back of an envelope and that's were its going to stay. I thought Repsol Hondas were exoctia, not a pre 65 with a Villiers engine

[wobbler]

Metisse,

I had a brief thought about one & that's where it will stay .... No wonder the twin shock scene is so crazy ...... A very blinged up Fantic with all the right toys probably £2500 max and in most cases you ride all if the same trials !!!

[japes1275]

It's all down to the lax rules. A lot of Pre 65 bikes have been modified to the point where they are more competetive than some of the early twinshock jap/European bikes. So are 1980's twinshock bikes going to be allowed to be modified enough to make them more like a bike from the late 90's or 00's? Might be difficult in that disc brakes and mono shocks are the main changes but I'm sure people can still find things to spend their money on to make the bike more competetive and force other competitors to spend more money to compete.

It's the rules on frames, hubs and yokes that make me laugh. It seems most clubs seem to allow 'replicas' of theses items, some say must be of the same material and appearance, some don't. Well for a start if it's of the same material and appearance then you might as well use the original! Or if a replica means it can be of any material or appearance then anything goes!!

There also doesn't appear to be much in the way of checking the bikes are eligible before the start of a trial or more importantly (and probably easier than having a scruitineer) encouraging other riders to come forward if they believe a bike is outside of the rules.

My bike is probably worth about £2500-3000. It is basically the same as it was 30 years ago, in fact in the main it's not much different to what it might have been like in the 60's. It is still rideable and enjoyable. I rode it the other week and I'm sure that if a decent rider had been riding it would have done ok.

But I'm guessing that if I sold it the first thing most new owners would do is rip it apart and spend the same again as what they might have paid for it making it more 'competetive'.

If we had a decent set classes and rules (country wide) that were enforced then the less modified (and the point here is cheaper) bikes could have a competetive days riding alongside the 'money no object' bikes.

Edited November 15, 2015 by japes1275