charlie prescott Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Hi Guy's. Hi GG. Yes in 1962 going forward Dan Shorey was a "Works" racer for Bultaco and was on very good terms with the family. And was the first to ride the 196 cc Race bike, that was instigated by Ken Martin. This was a Kart engine, And don't forget that these Kart engines were the biggest earner for Bultaco at the time. Regards Charlie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 I love this old bike history. Charlie and Deryk thanks for sharing what you guys know. I know Sammy's museum would like another biography completed in the colour / photo magazine style of Sammy's bike collection book. It's because the Mick Walker (RIP) which I really enjoyed in their opinion just isn't that visually appealing. There's also the challenge of getting Sammy sat down long enough to get any useful information. He's always thinking of a bike that needs mending . I suppose there's a mountain of work to complete always there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 A lot of the development work had been done by Jack Anelay in Lancashire, as can be seen on the bike entered by Jack in the 1962 SSDT, ridden by Tommy Ollerton. It makes you wonder with hindsight did the British firms have their heads in the sand in 62/3 /4 when others were considering lighter 2 strokes as a the way forward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Guy's , Nigel it was called being British and knowing better than the Minion's that you employed! Wrong on all counts has we youngsters said at the time. Wake up man can't you see that the Japanese know more about copying British bikes and making them better? Then the Spanish did the same to the trials bike industry. We are British and we will never learn Yha . Charlie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 im not so sure thats true now, but i wasnt aware that back in 62 peeps like Anelay had the exact blueprint for Sammy. Youd like to think that the comp dept would have at least tried out the idea? FFS we had bantams then at least it wouldnt have been a big leap, but hindsight i suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) im not so sure thats true now, but i wasnt aware that back in 62 peeps like Anelay had the exact blueprint for Sammy. Youd like to think that the comp dept would have at least tried out the idea? FFS we had bantams then at least it wouldnt have been a big leap, but hindsight i suppose. To get the story of the Bultaco development into true perspective - the factory understood how to make good engines for reliable speed - and there was competition in the UK amongst potential distributors for the UK distribution rights for Bultaco products. Anelay's were a strong Lancashire dealership heavily involved in road racing - which was an attractive deal for Bultaco. Like all dealerships they had reasonable workshops and one of the lads was a trials rider who took pity on the off-road model that came as part of the dealership, as a sort of trail bike offering, and set to and made himself a trialler out of it - the result, after various 'improvements' he was riding locally at the time, then finally knew it was worth a 'Holiday in the Highlands' in 1962. It wasn't that the British competition departments didn't have the skill, ability, etc., to develop suitable machinery - for example don't forget that Sammy himself did the major development work on GOV 132 as an Ariel employee, working in the competition department developing his works bike. It was in that phase that, as a development rider with the consummate skill of being able to repeat ride a section time and again and describe exactly what effect changes were making, was able to guide the cam grinder to adapt the cam from the standard works cam into Sammy's own preference - which transformed the way the power came in. Sam's personal influence was more in the handling and frame modification, but the main modifications to GOV were complete by 1962, when Sammy took the bike to Scotland to avenge Gordon Jackson's victory in 1961 when he dropped just a single mark - in 1962 Sammy did win - but dropped 8 marks doing it. No it wasn't that the British manufacturers didn't have the skill - but they were losing their major sales battles around the world, primarily to the Japanese, and they were all in diabolical financial states - fighting to stay in business - not working out how to develop better trials models that would only affect less than one per cent of their total sales....... Amidst all the eulogising of the fantastic Bultaco, don't forget that Sam won in 1965, narrowly beating Arthur Lampkin on his works BSA, then in 1966 Alan Lampkin on his BSA, beat Sam on the Bultaco, and in 1969 Bill Wilkinson on his Greeves beat Sam on the Bultaco in the Scottish. Edited November 21, 2015 by laird387 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Is registration 669 NHO 1962 or earlier because I believe 1963 was the first year of numbers issued with a year letter so A = 1963 and so on. If 669 NHO is a Model 4 Bultaco were they the first trials bike Bultaco produced or was the Model 10 the first, also the round shaped fuel tank was that fitted to the early models then changed to the squarer design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Is registration 669 NHO 1962 or earlier because I believe 1963 was the first year of numbers issued with a year letter so A = 1963 and so on. If 669 NHO is a Model 4 Bultaco were they the first trials bike Bultaco produced or was the Model 10 the first, also the round shaped fuel tank was that fitted to the early models then changed to the squarer design? Motor cycle registrations did not follow the same annual letter prefix regulations way back then, registration authorities still had 'old' numbers that could be issued - I think the explanation given was to do with the size of the number plates in the construction and manufacture regulations needing to be altered.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Thank you Deryk, was Model 4 or 10 then the first Sherpa trials bike sold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Hi Guy's. I think I am right to say that when it came down to frame dimensions and angles Mr SH Miller did is own thing . And I also think that he got the hacksaw out to the Sherpa N to make it steer and feel just like the Ariel GOV 132. The steering head angle was unique to him, has were the yokes he had cast for GOV after cutting up the Ariel/BSA yokes and then re braising them to get them to what he wanted. to make patterns. Yes I have owned a Bulto for a while, but when I had finished rebuilding it, I took one ride around the yard , and said get it sold, I could not ride that, It just felt all wrong to me and to long in the steering. Each to there own. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bult360 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Thank you Deryk, was Model 4 or 10 then the first Sherpa trials bike sold? The model 4 was originally the Sherpa n trail bike first 155cc then a handful of 200cc were built , they were not a proper 1 day trials bike more of a gentle green laner . however both Tom ollerton and Dan shorey modified their bikes to be more suitable as a proper trials bike . The model 4 designation was continued but used for the first (200cc) and second(250cc) series matador enduro type machines ,even though the matador mk2 was called a model 16 the serial nos always started with a 4 .The model 10 Sherpa T was the first true bultaco trials bike with serial nos starting with 10 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Thank you Deryk, was Model 4 or 10 then the first Sherpa trials bike sold? Sorry trialsrfun, I know a fair bit about the history of the arrival of the Spanish machines, etc., to these shores because I was very much involved at the time - but I have never owned, or even wanted to own, any of them so never got as far as knowing what the model type numbers, and the like, were. I'm afraid you'll have to ask somebody else - I will happily discuss any British bike. PS for Charlie: Sorry, Charlie - but my computer has detached me from the email address you have been using - but offroarchive@gmail.com is still fully functional, Deryk Edited November 21, 2015 by laird387 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I love this old bike history. Charlie and Deryk thanks for sharing what you guys know. I know Sammy's museum would like another biography completed in the colour / photo magazine style of Sammy's bike collection book. It's because the Mick Walker (RIP) which I really enjoyed in their opinion just isn't that visually appealing. There's also the challenge of getting Sammy sat down long enough to get any useful information. He's always thinking of a bike that needs mending . I suppose there's a mountain of work to complete always there. Hi, The trouble is anyone who has grown up in the electronic age of digital cameras and the like probably cannot envisage just what the world of offroad sports photo activity was like - you see we were working with cameras that needed film, and many of us relied on processing the films ourselves - in 1962 Gordon Francis was photographing the SSDT for Motor Cycle News and had to set up a temporary darkroom in his hotel room in Fort William in order to get the photographs processed............that only happened with black/white film, so by and large, whether it is visually appealing or not, there were NO colour images available for the vast majority of historical records. Even when colour film became readily available and high street colour processors were gradually introduced, the early results were, to put it mildly, gruesome........... Nowadays life is so much simpler............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi Guy's. Just Started a page on the "Otter" site. About The Dan Shorey Sherpa "N" UBW 677, If you are interested. Regards Charlie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 thanks charlie nice to get back on thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.