japes1275 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Ttspud, your last post is In my mind absolutely spot on. It's made me feel a bit bad though as I'm currently fitting electronic ignition to my bike! (I'm going to keep the old Zener system just in case though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallo Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Box standard ????????????? Very new box. Sure, and the titanium header, all readily available back in the day Edited November 23, 2015 by wallo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Sad to say, looking carefully at that very interesting bike I couldn't actually see any bits that came originally from an HT5 - and I only used to restore them...........But Sam looks happy - but then he probably supplied some of the bits. Edited November 23, 2015 by laird387 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi Deryk, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. Our bikes still have magnetos, and have never had an issue in a pre65 trial with them although they do need maintaining. But, my brother and I have both been put out of modern events with modern electronic ignition breaking completely. One I remember, an immaculately maintained beta, blew through more than one electonic ignition in a matter of months, and they do not come cheap and they are not repairable. Going back to the original debate about GOV132, now that bike is a special, was always a special (as has been pointed out) and even back then was a big advantage over original pre65 bikes. Today, that bike is still an advantage over the proper pre65 bikes which some people still ride, yes 300lb and so on. I still ride one, I am young and I am very happy to do what needs to be done to maintain it and I have no problem with riding such a heavy machine, or a slow engine, or a wide seat, or a long bike, or poor suspension, as long as it is not being ridden against cheat bikes which have nothing left of pre65 in them. Now that is the truth. Too many people not just bending the rules but ignoring them completely, effectively there are no rules. Anything goes. That Ariel on ebay is an absolute joke. It may as well be a Gas Gas or Yamaha. That is why you don't see many proper pre65 bikes, it is nearly impossible to have fun when you are so disadvantaged against 'modern' bikes with some courses becoming difficult to dangerous for 300lb bikes designed for 200lb bikes and competitive twinshocks for all but the best originals riders. What do you expect? You yourself are riding a modified bike yet expect others to accept every disadvantage you are forcing upon them? Or do you expect them to modify their bikes too and hence remove another 'true enthusiast' as you put it, from the sport? You either want a sport with pre65 bikes, or you do as is being done and modify your bike in the same class and watch them leave. No, the truth is that some people in the sport seem to have put winning above anything else, will do anything to win, at any cost to anyone else, with no regard for anyone else, at any cost to their bank balance, with no regard to people watching or to the sport's future, probably started with the series following Deryk's original immensely succeful series.. that following series without rules began the decline which you see in the almost completely removal of original pre65 bikes today, all except for the Talmag. No, they have done exactly the right thing. And it is no joke. Len Huttys bike was quite heavily modified compared to an original, though it did look immaculate. Yes, that is absolutely correct. I don't want me or others to have to be forced to spend up to ten thousand pounds to develop a cheat bike of no manufacturer if they want to enter this sport.. just a mass of one-off parts to be replaced next year.. and actually each expensive new part worth precisely zero to anyone else without precisely the same cheat bike. Not a very attractive proposition for anyone sporting a brain. What I want to see is pre65 bikes ridden by riders who respect the sport, organisers who have a set of rules that allow them to support pre65 bikes to be ridden on courses set outfor pre65 bikes, with those that wish to ride specials being included but identified as such and catered for within the rules. For those that wish to continue forever moving pre65 to 'modern', how far do you want to see the developments go? Introduce mono-shocks? Disk brakes? Hydraulic brakes and clutch(probably already here!)?... Why bother? Just buy a modern bike and leave pre65 alone so that others can enjoy pre65 as pre65 not pre65 come anything goes. No, Deryk is right, things are going to need to begin again, with rules and bikes that people can understand and a sport that people can enjoy again and believe in again. All the best, TTSpud Spud,that is quite an aggresive manner you have there and seem very sure about what I do and the bike I ride... Why do you suggest that I am OK riding a modified bike,but want to force everyone else to ride something lesser ? Are you saying that because I use an electronic mag that my bike is only fit for a specials class ? If you had ever ridden one of the trials that I ran for Bath Classic MCC you would actually know what I'm about.I spent 5 years running trials that HAD to be welcoming to old bikes and / or older or less experienced riders. I can't remember one section we marked out that couldn't have been ridden by a 54" wheelbase 300 lb bike,esp our B route. THAT is the key to Pre65 trials,marking out sensible sections,nothing tight or dangerous.Then advertise it - welcome people along and ensure that the trial is what you advertise.The English weather may not always be on your side,but you can only look at the forecasts and bear them in mind.I'd like to think that in the main part I managed to do what I said I would,and I'm planning to do more.I can assure you that any trial I put my name to will be friendly to long, low and heavy Pre 65er's. As for the Talmag, I stand by what I said,its a joke,they make great fuss in the regs about banning electronic ignition and then when you go there nobody gives a monkeys.Last year I reckon well over half the bikes there had electronic ignition - tell me how that works ? If you like proper Pre65 bikes, the Arbuthnot has a better turnout of more original bikes and being a road based trial,to me makes for a better day out. In terms of ignition,I'm more than happy to use an ordinary mag, its getting hard to find decent points for them without getting ripped off.(But for now I'd rather have a painless knee) I recently missed out on an AVO Douglas Mk6 which would have taken me to a higher level in mag maintenance,shame it would have been a nice addition,but again I'm not going to pay silly money... So you want to ride amongst others on original Pre65's, you may be lucky and have a shedful of them - most of us don't and have to pay the money,or build from what parts we can get.Just looking at the back page of the September issue of Jampot there is a smart 1940 G3 Matchbox on girders,just like the one I had - £7000 and its yours. A few weeks back a mate bought a particular original rigid frame - £700 without a logbook. Fill your boots,show me where all these young people and cheap bikes are - I'll happily put on trials for them ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallo Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sad to say, looking carefully at that very interesting bike I couldn't actually see any bits that came originally from an HT5 - and I only used to restore them...........But Sam looks happy - but then he probably supplied some of the bits. Please look a lot closer, loads there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetom Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I watched ' Field of Dreams ' at the weekend. That was unrealistic nostalgic fiction too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well I have looked closer and it is a very pretty bike with lots of modern parts, this is now a standard wish list for this class. I can see- Flange less alloy rims, gas assisted rear shocks, plastic mudguards, Amal concentric carb, looks like an alloy sump guard, looks like a titanium front pipe, fat bars, slab yokes, no fork gaiters fitted, modern small tank with plastic cap, no seat ! ,looks like skinny hubs, KTM style kickstart, in fact apart from the crankcase,barrel, head and gearbox where are the standard 1950's parts. I love it but where are they all being ridden ? surely not just being built for entry into the pre 65 Scottish or the Northern classic bike championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hi collyolly, et al, I didn't say that I couldn't see any standard Ariel parts - I said I couldn't see any standard HT5 parts - starting from the frame and working outwards........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hi Laird, yes I agree with you, it was Walllo that suggested a closer look was required. The sport has morphed into pre 65 bikes being built in 2015, I have never seen so many Bantams, Cubs and James, if they had been around in 1964 the Spanish invasion would never have happened. As I said earlier most are competitive with the twin shock brigade in fact the better versions of the twin shocks, you would need a late SWM or Fantic to compete with the Pre 65's ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hi Laird, just re-read your post, HT5 parts, well that's not going to happen ! I was referring to any standard 1950/60 Ariel parts ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hi collyolly, et al, In ORRe-34 - due on-line shortly, I reveal a little more about the 1964 Armada that I am certain very few 'experts' know anything about............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Where would we all be without the education afforded to us by your knowledge and experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esuark Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) not sure how the above remark is intended,but for myself I`m interested otherwise I would not read this forum or have signed up for ORRe and as with all things make up my own mind right or wrong from there..... Edited November 28, 2015 by esuark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I read somewhere that GOV 132 was fitted with Girling gas shocks which at the time were unavailable to the general public. Not all bikes being ridden today are built from special or modified parts, Robert Bowyer won the Scottish Pre 65 on a Triumph twin built from Triumph parts by dad Roger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted November 28, 2015 Report Share Posted November 28, 2015 "trialsrfun" posted: I read somewhere that GOV 132 was fitted with Girling gas shocks which at the time were unavailable to the general public. ...as might be expected with many parts on any works bike undergoing continuous development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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