Traditional British Trials

[laird387]

There is an inevitability about most things that we encounter in this life - and limiting those inevitable thoughts simply to offroad motorcycle sport I am firmly reminded of another adage - what has been around will come around..........

 

Having my own personal experience of motorcycle trials in the late 1940's, through the 1950's where rigid framed machines ruled because people felt that the extra weight of rear suspension until September 1954 when Bob Manns turned up at the West of England trial on his own home-brewed sprung AMC and trounced the rest of the entry - whereupon the rest of the trials world hastily converted to sprung machines - the BSA works riders were told to use their scrambles frames for the first few weeks until they could get a batch of sprung trials frames built.........

 

Then in the 1960's we saw Gordon Jackson win the Scottish dropping just a single mark and Sam doing miraculous things on his two Ariels. In November 1964 Sam arrived at the St Cucufa trial in Paris with a Bultaco in his pick-up to take his first win on a Sherpa, announced to the public in England at the Motorcycle Show and the beginning of another cycle in the inevitability of trials life - as his domination of results on the new bike soon persuaded organisers to tighten up trials sections to try and take marks from the Spanish wonder bikes.

 

In the 1970s those of us who couldn't afford to buy a new Spanish bike - or even a new British bike for that matter - it was more the lack of 'spare' money when you were bringing up a young family that was the determining factor, decided to create an additional series of trials where the sections were set wider, without the sudden climbs and twisty turns. For want of any other title we called the very first trial 'The Bigger Banger trial' and attracted more than fifty entrants and it was won by Arthur Lampkin who brought his rigid Gold Star, which he rode to the event, then back home afterwards, just like we always had done in the 1950's, etc.

 

Other clubs saw the success and the 'Pre-65' movement was born. Initially all the bikes were British, all were cobbled together from available bits lying around in workshops, and often scrap-yards, it was an inexpensive sport and that helped it to flourish and grow.  Through my column in TMX I gave it plenty of publicity, then I was approached by British Bike Magazine to write a column - and they offered a series of awards for a 'British Bike' championship - which with the help of various friends around the country - we created, based on using old routes and sections that had gone out of use because they were 'too easy' for the new breed of Spanish bikes.  The series was an instant success and was quickly 'grabbed' as an A-CU championship, with awards sponsored by Sammy Miller - and the Sammy Miller series was born.

 

I was nominated as Series Co-ordinator for the first ten years, and was able to set the rules - which were as simple as possible - and specifically designed to encourage bums on to saddles by ensuring that you only competed against other riders on machines of comparable technical ability to your own. The basic rules were that we used single route sections, preferably 20 sections or sub sections to a lap.  All the sections were ridden by all the classes, including the sidecars.  Where it was impossible to get a sidecar through, clubs were allowed to have a solos-only variant for up to five subs - but there had to be five alternate subs which could be nominated as sidecar sections.  The concession was allowed that rigid models would follow the sidecar routes.

 

The system worked, I checked every section before it was allowed in the series to make sure it was just like the sections had been before 1965, we had, from the very first year 450 regular riders who rode at least half the events in the series - and in all the years that I was actively involved, we never had a single tie to sort a class winner.  The system was good, it wasn't broken - it didn't need fixing.

 

But then I had my own family problems and eventually my wife lost her struggle with cancer.  The 'know it alls' began to 'improve' the series, it became multi-route, the sections were no longer as they had been before 1965 and there was no longer a series co-ordinator making sure there was a common standard.  Now the entries on rigid machines are decimated, the 'so-called' pre-65 bikes are nothing like they were before 1965, they weigh a fraction of the manufactured weight, they have suspension travel and damping that would make GOV132 look like a dinosaur.

 

So there is an opportunity for someone to grasp the nettle and create a reinvigorated sport, turn the cycle by organising a 'TRADITIONAL TRIAL' - single route, ridden by all classes including sidecar, with separate sidecar sections to be ridden by s'cars and rigids for up to 20% of the total section count. Sections to be verified as 'TRADITIONAL' by a nominated person who was around and riding in the 1960s.

 

As an incentive Charlie Prescott is offering a fee of no less than £500 to assist the FIRST club to agree to run a 'TRAD' trial - but the offer is only open for another six days - so finger out and get in touch with Charlie on his BSA-Otter website.  I am coupling that with an offer to generate as much publicity as possible for the organisers and to give full coverage of the event and the outcome in our digital magazine, ORRe.

 

So there you are - now it is over to you - tell us what you think.

 

But, whatever, enjoy.

[ttspud]

Hi Deryk,

 

Well, what you describe is on the lines of what needs to happen [sport-wide], and as far as I am aware, there are rumblings along those lines coming from more than one source.  

 

 

 

Now the entries on rigid machines are decimated, the 'so-called' pre-65 bikes are nothing like they were before 1965, they weigh a fraction of the manufactured weight, they have suspension travel and damping that would make GOV132 look like a dinosaur

 

The above issue though still needs dealing with, you simply cannot have 200lbs high, fast, easy bikes in the same class/subclass as proper pre-65 bikes, it will not work, people will stay away as they are now no matter what format the events take.  

 

So, you either exclude all modified bikes, draw a line.  Or you include everyone, as I tried to do.  It is not clear what you intend.

 

All the best,

TTSpud

Edited January 8, 2016 by ttspud

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

 

Here is the link,        pre_65_sections_trials_clubs.html

 

 

Regards Charlie.

[laird387]

Hi TTSpud,

 

The whole essence of the 'TRAD' trial - and the reason that my system worked before is that when the sections are sensible the whole nature of the trial changes.  No longer is there ANY advantage in having an ultra-lightweight, made of helium filled titanium tubed frame, with a zillion inches ground clearance - indeed they become a handful if the centre of gravity gets too high.  The result becomes far more dependant upon rider skill and ability - not rider-wallet...............believe me, I have been there, tried it, got the T-shirt.............

 

My email has been red hot for the last hour since the post was seen on 'tc' and several very long standing friends and colleagues have made some very salient points.

 

Prime amongst them is a suggestion from several sources - that 'TRAD' trials with sole-route sections should be segregated into 'TRAD BRITISH BIKE' trials and separate 'TRAD TWINSHOCK' trials, that would eliminate at a stroke most of the bickering about year of manufacture.

 

The other is that my initial separation of classes for my British Bike and Sammy Miller series was actually spot on and should be retained.

 

As a reminder for our younger readers the class separations were, excluding the 'year' definitions originally included:

 

Rigid Pre-unit

Rigid Unit (including twostrokes)

Pre-unit Springers

Unit Springers

 

Rigid Sidecars

Springer Sidecars.

 

Specials (Any machine with any replacement or replica parts that are not dimensionally identical to the originals.) Remembering that weight is a dimension...............

 

As ever, over to you, enjoy.

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by laird387

[nitsua]

Hi Deryk sounds great but how many original bikes still exist they must shurly have all been modded by now.

I know I have spent a small fortune modding my Dot not to mention the time involved, I would be very reluctant to undo it all.

[laird387]

Hi Deryk sounds great but how many original bikes still exist they must shurly have all been modded by now.

I know I have spent a small fortune modding my Dot not to mention the time involved, I would be very reluctant to undo it all.

Hi nitsua,

 

The idea is how not to spend a fortune - not how to spend more - you would be welcomed to one of my TRAD trials - and if your DOT has been modified simply ride it in the specials class - you still ride all the sections and you can still compare your marks with anybody - or indeed, everybody, else.

 

And yes, there are plenty of old bikes festering away in garages waiting for the owners to find time to restore them at great expense in order to put them on a Show stand - one day.

 

Trouble is there aren't enough awkward old farts like me around - 'cos I used to regularly be called on to judge at the Shows - but I would only award winners rosettes to those who could start the bike for me............

 

Like I always say, and truly mean it, ENJOY, that's why you have a bike.........

[roadster]

It seems a very good idea to me. I ride a rigid sidecar outfit which is pretty much original: even the sidecar has been on since the mid 50s, possibly from new. As there are no pre 65  sidecar trials in the deep South West (it is a 360 mile round trip to Bristol) we have been riding in ACTC organised trials which cater for cars and bikes and are really enjoying them. The Exmoor is at the end of January and uses some very old sections. We probably would travel for one of the "trad" trials: we did to the Arbuthnot which seemed to have very suitable sections and thanks to Deryk for suggesting it to me. So, yes, there are original bikes being ridden if not in "pre 65" trials.

[norman_wisdom]

Hi Deryk, 

 

It will be very interesting to see the level of support for this. One thing that might worth considering is where the two strokes (mainly villiers engined bikes) go? One of the reason the 'tiddlers' (Bantams included) have gained such popularity over the last several years is of course because of their weight advanages, giving older riders a fighting chance of a ride. I think these days we might have to accept that even with classic sections, there might be a higher proportion of 2 strokes than when you started things off, as well as the more trad-like events such as the Arbuthnot I think do not cater for them. I for one would like to see a higher proportion of Greeves out again, a bike that was ubiquitous in the period but which has been eclipsed by much of the pre65 scene. A specific 'Two Stroke' Cup might not be a bad start, obviously original (catalogue) frame and forks only though.

 

Norman

[laird387]

Hi Norman,

 

Nearly every Bantam that I see in the photographs that I place in ORRe day after day, would most correctly end in the Specials class, but there are still photos of Greeves that I see in use that would be correctly allocated to the Unit Twostroke class.

 

If, sadly, the fiddle Bantams decided they would rather not ride in the TRAD trials, than enter the Specials class I suspect even more 'proper' bikes might be tempted into the series.  How sad!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's just that I decided that somebody had to do something, like when Ian Rennie and I spent two years poring over old OS maps, discussing with the Wiltshire County Surveyor, then explaining to all the landowners just what we wanted to do in order to resuscitate the Arbuthnot trial that had been abandoned and forgotten since 1929 - and now, thirty-odd years later people are still riding in it and thoroughly enjoying themselves.

 

I'm just a happy masochist, really...........

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

 

WOW, what a Day ONE.

 

I have had to stay home today because of the response.

 

The mails have kept coming and the phone has been Hot.

 

 Even a cycle company has given me an offer I can't refuse for my readers, although they are related.

 

But Hey, this would not have happened If Deryk had not got the bit between his teeth.

 

Good Man, Three Cheers for that Guy,That has never given up on his cause.

 

If we don't back him now, it will be the Classic Trials Scene, that loose out, Big time. in the end.

 

And every one person that owns a Classic Trials Machine, they were made to be ridden.

 

Long Live the "TRAD" trials Movement.

 

 

Regards Charlie.

[nigel dabster]

Good luck with putting the genie back in the bottle lads, you're going to need it.

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

 

"The Spirit" of "TRAD".

 

Enjoy.

[japes1275]

Doesn't look very traditional to me! Lycra pants and a T shirt? Where's the Barbour suit?! I hope the Trad movement is going to encourage Trad clothing and bikes as well as sections!

Here's one Deryk will like, back from his original concept in the 70's. (Sorry Deryk, found it somewhere on the net!)

[japes1275]

Nice natural section, no need for loads of flags, totally original bike, full Barbour suit worn and grim determination on Tiger's face!

[totalshell]

seems we ve been doing just this in yarkshire for a fair old while with YCMCC pre unit trials.. single route classes for rigid preunits twins owt esles is a special.. or if thats not definitive how about the big bike series.. just for bangers of 350 or greater rigid and springers NO two strokes/cubs.. one simple route only..