old trials fanatic Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi Charlie thats good news because Greeves have such a significant place in trials history. As for "traditional trials" then no we wish you good luck with the format but all we were trying to do is introduce somewhere for owners of Classic trials bikes from the 60's and early 70's to ride because at the moment nobody caters for the owners of Sachs and Zundap engined Sprites & Saracens, Minarelli engined Cottons and Dots, Alta and McLaren Suzukis, Greeves Pathfinders and even 4 speed and early 5 speed Bultacos and Montesas / Ossas from the 60's. Yes they could enter as twinshocks but they dont because they are totally outclassed and uncompetitive up against Fantics, SWM, late Bultacos, Montesa, Ossa, Aprilia etc. As i said we wish you luck with your endeavour to reintroduce "traditional trials" but that was not what we were aiming for. Yes we are trying as much as possible to reduce the number of tight sections and make them more flowing as they were in the late 60's and 70's but you are aiming more at road trials and all our events are closed courses all off road so a much different kettle of fish. Good luck i will watch from the sidelines with interest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gautrek Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 How are you going to accurately measure the centreline of the crankshaft without at least removing the outer covers ? Its very simple on old brit bikes mate. As flywheels tend to be round then you can tell the crank centre line just by looking at the engine side on. No need to take anything off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Its very simple on old brit bikes mate. As flywheels tend to be round then you can tell the crank centre line just by looking at the engine side on. No need to take anything off. Doesnt sound very accurate. If everybodies happy with that then no worse than a lot of other rules i suppose. Not quite sure what the intention is though. If its to limit ground clearance then why not just measure ground clearance. If its about c of g then that will favour 2 strokes and on it goes. Whatever as long as everyone is clear and happy about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Hi otf, The discussion is descending to ludicrous dissension over the age, specification, eligibility, etc., of the machines whereas I thoroughly understand the basic economics which are distorting the current classic trials scene by creating totally false classes simply because the basic rules of machine eligibility that we had and worked thoroughly well have been allowed to lapse, such that now there are vast numbers of machines, many created by spending a kings ransom for light alloy components, and suspension improvements relying totally upon new technology that wasn't even available in the day they purport to represent. But I know that none of that is going to change, the machines are not going to be scrapped overnight just because of some rule change - because another club will 'allow' the allegedly banned machines and the riders will flock to their events............. However, I also know that there are plenty of machines that do not see the light of day because clubs have set mickey-mouse, twisty-turny sections that anyone on a genuine bike could not manage. Precisely the situation that we met in 1972 when we organised the first British Bike trial because we couldn't afford to buy an expensive Spanish model and bring up a young family. The only difference in our trial was that we set the sections with the markers in the same place that they would have been before 1965...................and that is all that I am suggesting for a Traditional trial. Where people with old bikes dare bring them without risking life or limb - or bike damage - then the talented riders on an old nail will still beat an idiot on a million dollar bike - and all will be well in the world - BECAUSE WE'LL GET MORE BUMS ON SADDLES. Enjoy Deryk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hi Guy's. Look I have spent many hours over the past couple of weeks scratching parts I should not scratch. Just to come up with a reason to explain why owners of period Trials machines have just stopped using them. Although we know they all still exist, they seem to be just resting in retirement in dusty sheds. Why? Well Mr Commercialism has taken over the Classic scene with expensive goodies from his shop needing to be shown to the rest of the still competing tribe. Let's walk tall he says and you need to be fit chaps, so loose a few pounds and the more the better. Polish your charms and trinkets to show you mean business, this should see off most of the opposition with there old and decreped irons. And they will be shy to come out and compete with us. So we will have won the battle. A few old warriors may still have some spirit left to try and rattle the perches in our cages, but if that happens we will appoint a spokes person that can stand up to Caesar and his friend. And after a few below the belt parries, they will just fade away again into the dust of time,and grime. And we will again show that the Sling-the Bling tribe are still the rulers of old Planet Feet-Up. Well it is late. Charlie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisse Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Some late night sniffing of the old Castrol oil bottle methinks......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Some late night sniffing of the old Castrol oil bottle methinks......... Sorry Hamish, Don't bother with bottle - it doesn't work when the 'R' is raw...........just pop a teaspoonful in the petrol tank and start the engine.........now, breathe deeply and the memories come flooding back. It even works in your car.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hi Guy's. Hi Deryk. Some old TT vinyl on the gramophone and a saucepan half full of Castrol"R" bubbling away on the old kitchen range and some of it spitting onto the hot surface. Absolute Bliss ! You don't get the same effect now-a-days with You-Tube and olive oil on your radiators. Well I am seventy so I can be stupid. Thats why I support "TRAD". Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Charlie, Deryk why not lead by example and organise a trial in the way you suggest which would reduce the advantage gained by the more modern type of classic trials bike. Welcome all entries but publicise the fact that it is to encourage riders on older bikes forget making up more new regulations. I am sure you will make more friends that way than you ever would with a 6' straight edge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hi Guy's. Hi TRF. Working on it. Who said I need Friends? Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Hi trialsrfun, I would dearly love to take up your offer - but sadly my days of walking, let alone trying to set up sections, are long behind me. However, there remain plenty of current riders who rode in my original series that regularly reminisce with me about the old sections - and maybe some of them could be persuaded............. As far as Charlie is concerned he is a mere strippling, only just seventy, so he has years of catching up with me............ Incidentally, one of the reasons that I keep pushing people to have a look at ORRe is simply because I know I am one of the last generation of publishers who were actually active in trials and scrambles - as well as knowing personally many of the stars at the time - so I can report with every faith that I am using personal certainty and genuine experience to make it accurate fact. But the day will come, hopefully not soon, but so many of my contemporaries are no longer with us that I am regularly aware that one day all the experience and knowledge that I have will die with me and be lost forever if I don't push on and get it on t'internet as a permanent record. When I was awarded my Millennium Medal - along with my dear friend and colleague, Ralph Venables - for 'services to motorcycling journalism', I made a personal resolve to create a 'Reference Library of Offroad Motorcycle Sport'. So far it sits at 36 volumes, 180+ pages, 2000+ photographs, the majority full page - and counting. Better yet, it is non-commercial - so NO space WASTED on advertising. And here is another offer - anybody seeking help or information on the historical facts of events, machines or people - use the email reference on this posting AND ASK........... Enjoy Deryk PS. Many thanks for taking the trouble to spell my name correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Hi Deryk, Charlie, Trialsrfun, Japes... I sense a little despondency, but I think there is no need to be. If you think back just a year or so, if this subject were to be brought up, it would be met with huge rafts of outrage, indignation, how on earth could one suggest such a thing as TRAD trials with a straight face, what about tyres, height, jampots and on and on..... But not so much now. A lot has changed in how things are being discussed even if the change in the sport has not happened quite yet. And you are right, the bikes do exist, there are riders out there, of original, old, pre-65 bikes. The Talmag this weekend I am sure many will be there amongst the modern bikes, though there could and should be a lot more. I noticed that someone actually admitted to 'cheating' by altering their ignition, and was not met with 'well we all do it', and that is a change, actually admitting that modified bikes are in fact cheating since the only sport-wide rules in existence are still Deryk's original rules and as it stands they are being ignored and so the sport has no rules, and people are putting carbon fibre, titanium, electronics and the bike that is left is not pre-65 and puts off all but the very best riders who, as Deryk rightly says, could beat the cheaters riding a pre-65 cement mixer. And it is the cheating that has destroyed the sport, nothing else, the pure selfishness of some to put money for modified parts or winning by any means or both above the enjoyment of the original pre-65 rider who was not interested in higher performance or big money or cheating, he just wanted a competitive and fun day out without costing the earth. So we have seen a change of attitude on these boards already. Also, the SSDT seems to be talking the talk of halting the cheating (in so many words) and perhaps even returning to more original bikes, I know now (since Deryk explained) that the trouble began with the Miller series, and the SSDT never represented the sport anyway, but it is still an indication that attitudes are changing. So where we are at is knowing that the cheating has to stop, knowing that the bikes and riders exist for an original sport, and knowing that there people still willing (as the Talmag) to put on a trial with non-tight sections, with non-electronic ignition etc (yes) and trying to keep the original spirit of the sport alive just as Charlie and Deryk are trying to do by trying to offer support to the sport with the TRAD idea going back to how the sport was and should still be. The question is what now. To me, it cannot go back exactly as it was with Deryk's original rules because we all know that that means that 90 percent of bikes now go into the specials class whether they be rigid, sprung, 150cc, 500cc, 2stroke, 4stroke etc etc, and that is untenable and unattractive no matter what the course is like. The course is a factor, but not more so than having fair rules that allow competition. So it still comes down to creating a set of rules that are unambiguous, sport-wide and allow all the current incarnations of bikes to ride against equal machinery hence the idea of 'sub-class' to differentiate the now (current version of the rules) 3 kinds of bike.. prestige (as factory), original (with modifications made at the time ie tyres, rims, exhaust routing, shocks etc) and modified (the rest, the cheat bikes of today, frames, engines, ignition, clutch, brakes, hubs, seat etc) WITHIN the same classes ie rigid, sprung, sidecar etc. The point being, riders are not then mostly in a 'specials' class, you ride as you do today but riders and spectators alike can see what type of bike you ride. Riders can compare against all the types of bike within their class AND their subclass. That means fair competitiion and that, as Deryk you know, means an attractive sport. The course is another issue of course. But less so. If you don't have fair rules, no course will matter. If you have fair rules, then you have original bikes back (maybe even prestige as at Charlie's one-off trial) and you can then set out a course for them as consistent with history as you like. The rules that myself, my brother and father created a year ago now are good, they will work but they yet require the realisation that such rules, sport-wide, are needed. All the best, TTSpud Edited January 25, 2016 by ttspud 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hi Guy's. There is a link to a page of Proper Classic Trials bikes from Northern Ireland ,from the late fifties early sixties, on my 2016 News Page. And a good example to what we wish we could get back in some form. Tried to put the link on here but it would not work. But it works on my site. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiggs Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hi... Surely for Trad Trials you would need to exclude bikes with folding footrests. I was too short of cash in the 1960s to be able to afford folding footrests, so my BSA and James had substantial metal pegs. The lads used to let me ride the sections first, to get rid of any loose rocks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hi Guy's. Mr P Higgs. You must surely know that folding footrests were introduced for your safety? I mostly hate the Bl**dy things for if you have been put off balance in a rocky stream for instance, you lift your foot from the peg to balance and when you go to place your foot back on, the thing has snapped up with avoiding a rock, you miss your footrest and balance and have a nasty five. So you would have been better taking a big lump out of your shin with a non folding variety ? Well until at my age I am still wearing a limp and having to use a walking stick, and the pride from having to make that hurtful three still pains me. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.