dadof2 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 Maybe I missed the point indeed, since I said EFI is better choice even on trials bikes per intended design. Have you ridden EFI OSSA to experience how good the EFI engine actually is on a trials bike? Hand-buit and specialist prepped high-end competition riding is something completely different to "average joe" production bikes. If a tiny nonsignificant company in trials segment doesn't have Bou or Raga riding for factory team doesn't mean they can't build excellent trials bikes. I'd actually be willing to bet if OSSA won a lottery, made some real advertising for their unknown name and could afford one of those two top riders then OSSA would dominate the trials comps Yes I have ridden an EFI Ossa (briefly) and it ran decently but not any better than carbed bikes. The owner of the bike liked it a first as well but then it had reliability problems, poor starting, linkage broke and dealer seemed unable to update EFI map properly and he sold it having suffered a lot of depreciation. I have also seen an Ossa win a trial. I have nothing against Ossa it just my opinion at this time EFI has not showed a performance improvement over a carb and is much more expensive and complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 You have. You're discussing FI with someone who thinks cable brakes are better than hydraulics. A properly designed cable disc brake will work nearly as well as hydraulics and is more than adequate for 99% of trial riders. Cable brakes are cheaper and easier to repair away from the workshop. They also have some technical advantages such as they do not suffer from piston push back and excess lever travel when the disc is bent. On my car, 4 wheels and not subjected to crashing and other such abuse I prefer hydraulics, on a trials bike I would prefer cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Personally I would rather ride a single speed,ridid aircooled bike than give up modern brakes. I'm probably a bigger luddite than you and still live in 1983 but i've no gripe with hydralic brakes as I see them working seemlessly every weekend at Trials. Now if you had said watercooling and all it entails you would get my vote. Anyway all you carb boys are living on borrowed time piddling fuel all over the place not really acceptable these day's.Better hope someone comes out with a bolt on FI kit before the whole show goes into room 101. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Better to go back to Drum brakes. If you bend one of those you are in deep trouble. Yeah, love those cables. I've never had a cable break out in the woods someplace... Lots better than these dumb reliable hydraulics. I have a 2014 OSSA Explorer and a 1974 OSSA explorer. The old bike handles great, suspension even works darn well (modern shocks). Brakes? (I think it has some). Clutch- wow is it stiff (better ton slip it too much or you will be replacing it). Engine? Very, very nice, but those old air cooled bikes are certainly noisy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 dadof2 I can't praise the EFI on Chris's Ossa enough. We no longer have to fiddle before during and after every section trying to get the bike to run cleanly. It's reliable runs well and has taken a lot of doubt over power delivery away. It idles reliably, does not feel as if it's going to die when the fans come on and has a clean pickup when the bike is asked to rev. Not something the Gas Gas and Sherco's we have had in the past wee able to do. Personally I cannot wait to see the back of the Carb. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcrhino Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Yes I have ridden an EFI Ossa (briefly) and it ran decently but not any better than carbed bikes. The owner of the bike liked it a first as well but then it had reliability problems, poor starting, linkage broke and dealer seemed unable to update EFI map properly and he sold it having suffered a lot of depreciation. I have also seen an Ossa win a trial. I have nothing against Ossa it just my opinion at this time EFI has not showed a performance improvement over a carb and is much more expensive and complicated. Both TRS and Beta are working on EFI (hearsay from reliable sources); Beta maybe for next year. Vertigo (albeit fairly recent) and Honda (long term) are successful with EFI. From personal experience: in two years Ossa riding (every week) I did not touch any part of the EFI system; still working, including starting, flawlessly. EFI on trials bikes works better than a carb. Period. Edited March 24, 2016 by tcrhino 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 Firstly lets exclude 4T from this discussion, carbs have significant drawbacks for 4T trials engines. Regarding cables vs hydraulic - I am referring to the means of transmitting force, not whats on the end of it. No way am I advocating a return to drums. Once of the variable that now affects the running of engines is fuel quality. The addition of ethanol affects fuel density, carbs automatically compensate for this because metering is to some extent by float displacement. EFI does not compensate for this because fuel delivery is based on volume. Some say they find EFI reliable yet this thread has a lot of people messing about with computers and fuelling maps, If it is so right why does this happen? When a carb is used you have all the fuel system in one cheap compact package, With EFI you have a throttle body, a pile of sensors, a fuel pump, ECU and a pile of wires, extra electricity generating capacity , a pile more wires and possibly a battery. There are two further EFI problems on 2T engines. At this time there are no lambda sensors available that would have an acceptable life span. As the fuel mixture passes through the crankcase containing residual fuel and oil (particularly during varying throttle conditions) the theoretical benefits of EFI can never fully be realised. There are many post on this forum from people who clearly have no idea how to diagnose carburation problems or set up a carb, to them EFI may well give a net benefit. To someone like myself sorting both EFI and carbs is relatively easy in the garage at home, but carbs easier to fix in the field and the EFI needs costly diagnostics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada280i Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 ...........now, where can I get a rotary dial cell phone from....... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I've worked on carbs for almost 50 years, all sorts of vehicles. I like them. But I find the OSSA EFI is working better than any motorcycle carb I've had, street, dirt, trials. Much less maintenance and better reliability and running. Just my experiences. You think I'd never have to adjust a carb in 280 hours? Or clean it? A good carb can work pretty well- but the EFI is better. I hate cables. But I also certainly don't feel you should listen to my experience - except maybe to say some have had good results. Edit: Yes, replacement parts on the EFI are more expensive than likely replacements on most carbs. For me it has been worth it- obviously not for everyone. I've seen more reliable, better performance than any carb I've had (including SmartCarb) Edited March 25, 2016 by lotus54 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Boom tsssh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi, looking for the software for the ossa kokusan ecu, standard rs232 protocol through i/o ports on ecu (renesis micro). Any help appreciated. Cheers JRD I can get you the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmc408 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Is there a way to tell what version of the software I am running? I bought a used 2012 Explorer and have no idea on what version it is... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Is there a way to tell what version of the software I am running? I bought a used 2012 Explorer and have no idea on what version it is... Thanks! The only way I know is to connect computer and read it. What is you location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmc408 Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 The only way I know is to connect computer and read it. What is you location? I am in San Jose. I was to pickup the bike, through lewisport (used), but the delivery didn't happen and I had to get it direct from the transport service...unfortunately that meant that Adrian couldn't look at it...and it is hard to get out to his shop mid-week. I am the 3rd owner...I think the first owner might have been in your neck-of-the-woods. Also, a completely unrelated question, hope the thread readers don't mind ;-) Just filled both tanks and noticed that if I work the suspension, I get a leak out the bottom of the top tank (general area). Will inspect it tomorrow when it is light, but if there is anything common to look for, let me know! I am getting it ready for the weekend ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted April 14, 2016 Report Share Posted April 14, 2016 The lower (main) tank has a pretty phoney setup for venting - well in my opinion. It can work, but certainly could be a lot better. See my other post how I had to doctor mine up to stop leaking. I think I glued it Into place finally. I don't like the top tank fuel cap either. I've lost it a couple of times and it tends to leak. I finally put part of a nitrile glove to seal it, and ran a 'T' with a one way breather. That works pretty well. I may be that way in July, if you havnt figured it by then I'll try to bring a computer and cables to check it out. The newer software works better, but there are two Versions of hardware. The older ones won't take the new software. I think Lewisport had ECUs now and that could be something for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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