undertheoaks3 Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Ok looked around couldn't find anything, so here goes. Coming from a dirtbike background where proper suspension setup is key, sag, static sag, preload oil weight etc, and now in the trials world I'm being told that spring rate not important unless you are a top level rider. Im curious is this true ? I have a stock suspension 2015 Beta 300 4T and weigh 200lbs and was thinking of getting the stiffer spring rates, will this help with an Intermediate rider ? I did notice in the owners manual heaviest weight for the stock suspension was something like 178lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ric h Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Something to get you started. http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/Technical/trials-suspension-tips.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) "Trials & Enduro News" or "On the Pegs" Suspension is page 54: http://www.joomag.com/magazine/trials-enduro-news-december-2014-vol-49-issue-12/0716551001416757092?short Edited February 3, 2016 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I think there are many 200lb riders that do just fine on stock springs, however the rear one is typically the first one to change if desired. If you were at #220 I would say go for it for sure. The Ohlins shock is a good upgrade as well for most. All it takes is money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motomanandy Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I also race Mx/Enduro and found the same regarding trials bikes, the suspension doesn't seem to be a concern with riders. I'm quite heavy and thought my beta was sat low at the back, I've had a few people say it's fine but fet it was loosing front control. I didn't find much advise online so set the bike up as I would my ktm and now it feels great. The rear is higher giving good front control, splats and drop-offs are well cushioned t's like a different 'easy to ride' bike now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.lucas Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 the suspension doesn't seem to be a concern with riders. I disagree. http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/58492-v-mar-linkage-or-similar/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/14152-suspension-set-up-4rt/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/47117-2006-4rt-suspension-settings/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/43044-4rt-suspension-setup/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/39441-how-to-know-when-to-re-do-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/54995-do-i-need-stiffer-springs-on-my-4rt/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/42440-adding-nitrogen-to-rear-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/12917-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/24273-standard-suspension-settings/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/41605-suspension-linkages/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/15504-suspension-setting/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/55088-a-thought-about-toni-bous-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/16697-performance-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/55283-suspension-setting/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/7735-sy-250-2006-suspension-set-up/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/37579-problems-with-sag-settings/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/49929-suspension-sag/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/56876-why-no-service-manual-suspension-setup/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/6476-06-280-pro-suspension-setup/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/13346-on-the-rebound/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/15307-suspension/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/41364-setting-sag/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/33029-static-sag/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/53167-merits-of-a-heavier-spring/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/33156-315-showa-forks-oil-quantity-and-air-gap/ http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/57958-which-rear-shock/ http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/646855-how-to-set-shock-spring-preload-sag-on-trials-bike/ http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1160321-1999-gg-321-suspension-click-settings/?hl=%2Bsuspension http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1113051-suspension-set-up/?hl=%2Bsuspension#entry12039718 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/987387-linkage-greasingmaintenance-rear-shock-questions/?hl=suspension#entry10339441 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/942328-setting-up-a-trials-bike-for-a-tallheavy-rider/?hl=suspension#entry9856785 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/932817-gg-txt-pro-02-fork-setup-question/?hl=suspension http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/927764-sherco-suspension/?hl=suspension#entry9714622 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/924112-spring-rate-recommendation/?hl=suspension http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/902862-ohlins-is-it-worth-it/?hl=suspension#entry9401141 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/893152-suspension-travel/?hl=suspension#entry9314072 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/883442-fork-oil-change/?hl=suspension#entry9190798 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/877421-rear-shock/?hl=suspension#entry9129531 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/874063-gasgas-rear-linkage/?hl=suspension#entry9101679 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/843961-suspension-set-up/?hl=suspension#entry8753313 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/838092-suspension-question/?hl=suspension#entry8671283 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/618690-03-montesa-shock-nitrogen-pressure/page-3?hl=suspension#entry8588908 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/794385-basic-setup-on-315r/?hl=suspension#entry8210537 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/778788-suspension-set-up-txt321/?hl=suspension#entry8126995 http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/762342-difference-in-springs-gg/?hl=suspension#entry7814977 http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3334 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3500 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=852 http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1008 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2795 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8606 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10271 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9379 http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6254 http://www.trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10091 http://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10248 https://trials.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8449 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undertheoaks3 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Good stuff thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 That's the crank up the preload vs heavier spring argument. Get the next size up springs from Steve Saunders. That's what I have on my '13 EVO. When you chrank up the preload you lose some of the suspension compliance for the smaller stuff so the bike gets a bit skittish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capper Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Been riding nearly 50 years never bothered with suspension settings! Might have made a difference... Might not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strengthcoach Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I weigh 245 lb and put the heavier springs in. The bike seems to feel a bit better than stock did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Been riding nearly 50 years never bothered with suspension settings! Might have made a difference... Might not People said the same about suspension when they were all riding rigids. It must make a difference as it wouldnt be adjustable. We are not all the same size or weight. Are you saying you dont adjust the position of your bars levers or carburettor either?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tribet Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 That's the crank up the preload vs heavier spring argument. Get the next size up springs from Steve Saunders. That's what I have on my '13 EVO. When you chrank up the preload you lose some of the suspension compliance for the smaller stuff so the bike gets a bit skittish. Cranking up the preload or getting a heavier spring do two different things,increasing preload does not change the spring rate at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Comparing trials with MX is not really valid. In MX a couple of clicks on the rear damper or a change of 2.5 wt in the fork oil can make several seconds a lap difference. Make the same changes on a trials bike and it probably will not change the number of marks lost. Trials bikes capabilities are now so far ahead of most riders capabilities, having the suspension a bit off ideal hardly matters. If you are heavy putting on a stiffer rear spring is worthwhile because in most section where grip is important most of the weight is on the rear wheel. Generally not worth putting stiffer springs in the front end because you want them soft on uphill sections and easy to compress and complient in tight turns. If the bottom out on drop offs or crossing the fell raise the oil level a few mm and use a slightly thicker grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey125 Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Comparing trials with MX is not really valid. In MX a couple of clicks on the rear damper or a change of 2.5 wt in the fork oil can make several seconds a lap difference. Make the same changes on a trials bike and it probably will not change the number of marks lost. Trials bikes capabilities are now so far ahead of most riders capabilities, having the suspension a bit off ideal hardly matters. If you are heavy putting on a stiffer rear spring is worthwhile because in most section where grip is important most of the weight is on the rear wheel. Generally not worth putting stiffer springs in the front end because you want them soft on uphill sections and easy to compress and complient in tight turns. If the bottom out on drop offs or crossing the fell raise the oil level a few mm and use a slightly thicker grade. Sorry I have to completely disagree with you on this. The reason it makes such a noticeable difference on MX or road race bikes is because you are making the bike suit you and you riding style and maintian grip. It's actually much easier to ride round a minor issue on a road race setup than it is on a trials bike. If the bikes kicking of obstacles you've got no grip or no steering. Loosing marks becomes very easy. Your riding on your own it's not like racing where cleaver tactics can keep people behind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 I would have to say trials got easier after I set my supention up correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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