dadof2 Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 This post was not written to wind people up nor to denigrate those who provide their services for free. It was written because I feel if entry fees continue to creep up relative to disposable income it will have a very negative effect on trials. Every rider less, is an entry fee less, a bike sale less and less sales of spares and consumables. "pricing itself out of the market" There does not have to be a similar cheaper activity, people just give up and do something different. The argument that people spend £?k on a bike should not have an issue with entry fees does not hold up, perhaps logically it should but in practice people spend several £k on a bike never to ride in competition at all or to do just a few events. Some things are now much cheaper (cameras and electric goods) compared to average wages, some are much more expensive, houses for example. I know of 2 trials last year one a centre event and one a national where afterwards the organisers were wondering if it was worth the effort to run the event because of the small numbers entering. Entry fees were a factor in quite a few riders staying away from the national, but not apart from the odd moan at the centre trial. I think the difference was £9 but it had a significant effect on the riders attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 putting an economics hat on i would contend that a) the number of entries an event gets has very little to do with price ---> other factors - such as (but limited too) weather, clashes, quality of sections, loos, parking, butty wagon, etc have an effect i would contend that trials are too cheap (weather against bike/kit prices, other motorsport, average earnings), i would like to raise entry fees to create more income so i can re-invest it (i've a long wish list at my club) c) "price elasticity of demand" for trials (especially in the short term) is very steep (if i remember my economics correctly). what i'm saying is that having spent all that money on a bike, kit, van, etc - am i going to quibble over £2 or £3 for an entry fee when i've laid out that money? obviously in the longer term this effect is lessened (a bit like the price of petrol going up doesn't stop you buying a car, but you kids might never learn to drive and just use public transport) d) re disposable income, wages, etc - a quick look shows £26k is average income. how you measure disposable income, which inflation measure you use over time, purchasing power parity, etc all vary and i think its extremely hard to prove/argue that trials is now more costly that it once was (but i'm not an economist to prove the alternative that my gut says is more probable - that trials is still very cheap) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 This post was not written to wind people up nor to denigrate those who provide their services for free. It was written because I feel if entry fees continue to creep up relative to disposable income it will have a very negative effect on trials. Every rider less, is an entry fee less, a bike sale less and less sales of spares and consumables. "pricing itself out of the market" There does not have to be a similar cheaper activity, people just give up and do something different. The argument that people spend £?k on a bike should not have an issue with entry fees does not hold up, perhaps logically it should but in practice people spend several £k on a bike never to ride in competition at all or to do just a few events. Some things are now much cheaper (cameras and electric goods) compared to average wages, some are much more expensive, houses for example. I know of 2 trials last year one a centre event and one a national where afterwards the organisers were wondering if it was worth the effort to run the event because of the small numbers entering. Entry fees were a factor in quite a few riders staying away from the national, but not apart from the odd moan at the centre trial. I think the difference was £9 but it had a significant effect on the riders attitude. so what is your suggestion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 In the Netherlands trials are (regional) 5-7 euro (from which one euro goes towards the trophies at the end of the year) the rest goes to the organising club. Wintercup (one club organises is 4x10 euro). I think that prices are quite fair, they need to maintain the club and facilities etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentmain Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Q. Would i pay £15 to attend a one day trial and have a great day out? A. Yes Q. Would i pay £20 to attend a one day trial and have a great day out? A. Yes Q. Would i attend a 2 day trial at the cost of £40? A. Maybe Q. Would i attend a 2 day trial at the cost of £30? A. Definately! Q. Would i buy 4 (or 5 in some areas) pints and sit in the pub for a couple of hours? Cost £20 A. Yes Q. Would my missus go and get her hair done at the cost of £60 - £80? A. Bloody right she would!!!!!!!!! Trials is cheap! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 so what is your suggestion My suggestion is each time a rise in entry fees is considered those involved in the decision need to think hard if it really is necessary. I think it would be a good idea if clubs provided a breakdown of what the entry fee is used for. Best management practices need to be identified and copied. If one club can fund purchase of significant amounts of land yet another nearby running a similar number of events with similar entry fees does not, is that right? Why is entry fee in Netherlands only 5 to 7 Euro? Why can't that be the amount in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I've got to say that Trials is the cheapest bike sport I've ever done by a country mile. These are hard working unpaid volunteer's, why do they have to justify what they do to the likes us for our own pleasure? National entry fees are cheap at twice the price in my book considering what you get and the massive effort put in by all concerned. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) 6K bike, 200 quid helmet 200 quid boots........................................."A tenner entry fee ffs"!!!!!!!!!! rip off, call Interpol now someone's up to no good. Edited February 25, 2016 by the addict 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornishtwinspring Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am currentely (with help) organising the 3rd rnd of a national championship series to run in april & our local club trial for this sun, believe me if the club had to pay me my working day hourly rate it would be bankrupt in 6mnths or less..Without the hundreds of volunteered man/woman hrs that we who are keen/daft enough to put throughout the country would there be trials at all??? NO. And I for one don't have time or inclination to break down entry fees to show what goes where.. If your that interested join a club and take some of the strain of organising an event off of the daft few who do for your enjoyment and you will see where your measely entry fee goes!!!!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am currentely (with help) organising the 3rd rnd of a national championship series to run in april and our local club trial for this sun, believe me if the club had to pay me my working day hourly rate it would be bankrupt in 6mnths or less..Without the hundreds of volunteered man/woman hrs that we who are keen/daft enough to put throughout the country would there be trials at all??? NO. And I for one don't have time or inclination to break down entry fees to show what goes where.. If your that interested join a club and take some of the strain of organising an event off of the daft few who do for your enjoyment and you will see where your measely entry fee goes!!!!!!! Very well said and exactly as it is, I have no interest at all where or what the money is spent on as I know the effort put in (free) and the enjoyment I will gain. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Dadof2, if you'd like to do some investigating please go directly to the accounts department at the EU Commission in Brussels and see if you can sign off their accounts for the past twenty years please as they've failed to do so in that time. Edited February 25, 2016 by the addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Where I feel that dadof2 is a little to critical of the cost, seeing how inexpensive it really is in comparison with every other Motorsport I know of, let's not keep going off on him. In short it isn't that expensive, lots of volunteers involved, and even the bike and gear in comparison is inexpensive so people don't have a lot of room for complaint. In my opinion it's really about budget and personal priorities. If trials really is one figure out how to make it work. Edited February 26, 2016 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spen Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 My suggestion is each time a rise in entry fees is considered those involved in the decision need to think hard if it really is necessary. I think it would be a good idea if clubs provided a breakdown of what the entry fee is used for. Best management practices need to be identified and copied. If one club can fund purchase of significant amounts of land yet another nearby running a similar number of events with similar entry fees does not, is that right? Why is entry fee in Netherlands only 5 to 7 Euro? Why can't that be the amount in the UK. Because we don't use the Euro in the UK..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 In the Netherlands trials are (regional) 5-7 euro (from which one euro goes towards the trophies at the end of the year) the rest goes to the organising club. Wintercup (one club organises is 4x10 euro). I think that prices are quite fair, they need to maintain the club and facilities etc. what is the licence fee per year? and what insurance is covered by the 5/7 euro? Does the Dutch acu have a benevolent fund an accident payout covered when competing and legal cover? Are all the events off road in designated areas or on land owned by several people? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) No insurance, thats ''done'' by your licence. Licence basic sport motorsport (e.g. trial) is 60 euro's. This licence excludes national championship. Those are 180, 200+ and 280 or something depending on the level. All our clubs have their own land, which in some cases might be sponsored by local government. If you organise an event where riders can buy a day pass you need some extra ''insurance card'' as a club. Also you, as a club, are member of the motorsports agency (KNMV or royal dutch motorsports association). There are some small costs involved, but the members get refund on their licence if they are a member of a official club, and the boardmembers of a club get free membership, because they promote motorsports. I organise one event each year, the total cost of administration stuff is about 150 euro's in total I think. But the 5 euro I mentioned is 1 euro for the trophy and the rest is for the club to cover organisational costs. Local trials we dont have to do anything special on administration stuff, appart from counting who is winning We are lucky to have a cheap small, yet very nice location on University ground so we dont have to spend money on the site exept for maintainance. Members pay small fee a year to be member, and can ride all year arround, and compete in local events and the regional event we organise ourselfs. Edited February 26, 2016 by crazybond700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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