Drayton Bantam Buying Advice

[trialsrfun]

Hi Stewart, I know two Drayton Bantam owners, one purchased a frame kit from Jim and built it himself the other bought a newly built bike from Jim which he specified must be Scottish Pre65 eligible so it all comes down to what parts are used in the build.

Might be best to get some pictures of the forks and hubs if you are unsure which type they are I am sure either Jim Pickering or someone here on tc should be able to assist in identification of them.

Edited May 21, 2016 by trialsrfun

[old trials fanatic]

How many more times do we have to keep regurgitating this old chestnut. It all stems from the choice of the term Pre65. 

 

I run a club and i honestly dont get riders coming up with all this cobblers i truthfully dont. If i did and there was enough support for it i would run a class for "genuine" P65 bikes whatever they are. But i just dont get interested people wanting to enter and believe me i like most club secretary's are desperate for entries so we are hardly likely to turn potential entries away. Its the same old whinge from the same old whingers every time.

 

Anyway its all pretty much irrelevant as there is no scrutineering and i dont know of anybody who would want the job and finally no Trials organiser in his or her right mind is going to turn riders and income away.

 

Park your rose tinted glasses and give it a rest. Everybody builds their bike how they want it to be. If you choose to have an exact copy of a bike from those so called halcyon days prior to December 31st 1964 then have one but stop trying to accuse everyone else that doesnt of cheating. You only cheat when you deliberately flount or contravene the rules of the organising club. Its NOT your shot it the event organiser or clerk of the course who decides. 

 

Doesnt trials have enough problems without a handful of anoraks trying to hasten its downfall ? 

 

I have said this numerous times before if you feel that strongly form your own club and organise your own events to YOUR OWN RULES you obviously know so much better than those of us who are stupid enough to every month bother to trapse around moorsides putting on events giving up 3 or 4 days of our own time for no thanks organising trials for the riders you accuse of being cheats.

 

Whats the matter dont you have faith in your argument or are you intimidated by the overwhelming numbers of riders you would have to cater for.

 

Good luck seriously good luck go and do it and let the rest of us get on with enjoying our sport.

[old trials fanatic]

Oh so now I want to see "real " pre 65 bikes relegated to living in museums do I. When exactly did I say that? Don't want to see any bikes in museums or at shows for that matter they should be ridden no matter what they are.

So you drew up a set of rules that you thought were the saviour of your sport as you see it. Did any club or association adopt them? What does that tell you? Did you set your own club up and put on events as I suggested or are you yet another keyboard warrior and not a doer?

Just admit it hardly anyone wants to ride an original P65 not that I've ever seen one for 51 years and if you could find one it would probably cost about the same as a current british twinshock. You can pick up a decent second hand British trials bike like a Drayton for £3000 or less depending on what needs doing to it. Hardly expensive and cheaper than a lot of twinshocks so again what's the problem. No form of motor sport has ever been cheap so forget that old loak of cobblers. People just aren't interested in riding them.

Back on theme. Best advice I can give on buying a Drayton bantam C15 or twin is do it you won't regret it.

Anyway Jim deserves all our support at the moment. A genuine bloke just like the bikes he builds and sells.

[andy m]

That's not a Drayton, it is one of Stavs over priced bikes . There have been 2 Draytons for sale this week and both have been sold. 

[trialsrfun]

Another genuine request for advise on the Trials Central Pre 65 forum asked by a fellow trials rider ruined by stupid and pointless argument.

 

Are you still there Stewart maybe now they have had their moment of glory you can receive the information you need?

[old trials fanatic]

Nurse nurse ttspud's stopped taking his medication again.

You really don't get it do you. The whole sport has been ruined by money and vanity beginning a long time ago. No-one in their right mind (to take a quote from above) is going to spend £6,000 to £10,500 on a bike that can just about be ridden if you live in Yorkshire, perhaps for a few years mostly to support a small cottage industry and other historic business interests. If you just want a fun day out in trials, you are better off spending £1200 on an easy to maintain bike, easy to find clubs, exciting performance and lots of riders to compete against. But yes, if it is so important to you to ride britshock (because pre65 is gone) then do it, but the voting is not on your side as is proven by the entry falling from 450 to no-pre-65s and about 12 britshocks starting by the throwing away of the rules to allow modifications to be sold easily into the sport. No other sport has been this stupid. If it had been left alone, with rules, then there would be more people like me enjoying the sport every week. Now it is an annual thing at one event with a handful of riders. No, that is no stupid an pointless argument. And if you had noticed, the insults have been flowing even against people that started the whole thing off and have given a lifetime to this sport. I have no axe to grind nor do I ride for more than a few hours a year, and no time to do much to sort all this out, and even I can see the nightmare this all has become over the last few decades starting with the ACU/Miller series. Deny all this if you like but it is true.

So, if you want to be fair to the original OP, no, do not buy a Drayton Bantam and waste the best part of 10k. Buy a 2004 Gas Gas for a fraction of the cost, find a local club and enjoy yourself, because pre65 has been long since been destroyed by people such as posting on this board. And now come the usual rounds of insults from club owners angry that there are whingers or anoraks or riders happy to ride pre65 bikes, and so there is no discussion, just abuse from people that saying they support the sport. You work it out. And others just don't want to watch any more of this, nor do I. Rather than watch the backstabbing that always ensues, I just delete the lot and let you all carry on living in a delusional world with your next set of modifications. All but killing a sport then recommending it, genius. So read this while you can, because I will remove it at some point because I do not want to waste another pointless minute in pointless no-discussion with people that sink to being personal, respect no-one, and act as they they are in some way being damaged. You all owe someone else a big apology, though I doubt those at fault have the integrity to. Welcoming, you probably need to look that one up in a dictionary.

[ttspud]

Nurse nurse ttspud's stopped taking his medication again.

 

Exactly.  More insults and abuse.  More getting personal as predicted.  You make my point perfectly.  Thank You.  You make the world of Pre65 seem so attractive, so welcoming.  Did you manage to apologise to the other party you abused earlier yet?  Ah no, you just made things worse.  Did you try to talk about the issues facing pre65?  No.  You run the Peaks Club, it must be nice to know that you treat the anoraks there so well or have you put them off too? And I am sure that when I go, you will carry on your abuse.  Well Done.

[trialsrfun]

TT Spud I too miss the variety of bikes and characters that were once seen more frequently in Pre 65 trials but do you not think that time itself has created the changes that are not all for the better in our chosen sport.

Many who rode true classic bikes around here are no longer with us or simply too old to compete.

At the last trial I rode one person who has always ridden a Royal Enfield Bullet trials appeared on a 200 Honda, another competitor who rides a 1951 Ariel 500 rigid said he also neede a smaller bike, both their ages each begins with a seven.

[ttspud]

do you not think that time itself has created the changes that are not all for the better in our chosen sport.

 

No, it is a red herring.  Of course older riders won't want to still ride the heavy bikes, but it is not true to say that there are not younger riders who could come into pre65 given a fair set of circumanstances.  I know many riders of my age, young and younger, with decades ahead to ride, that would love to ride in pre65 but are certainly put off by the ever increasing exorbitant prices of bikes ultimately made worse by the loss of rules driving up prices by causing expensive modifications to be a must-have on 'competitive' bikes.  If you did see the earlier links, the suggestion was that a competitive 2-stroke, tiny little britshock would be north of £6k, that is not going to attract the type of rider riding pre65 when the whole thing began and it is certainly not going to do so now.  Plus, of course, the difficulty and expense of actually finding an event.  I know, people will say how about this or this, but most just want a local club and to not travel too far with a decent number of riders to ride against in the same class.  And that sadly now just does not exist at all for pre65, and is very rare indeed for britshocks.  None of that is going to help even the most determined youngsters ride.  If people genuiney want pre65 to survive, then cut out the abuse and began to look at what is stopping those riders from riding.  I don't know how more simply to put it.  

[trialsrfun]

These opinions, heated discussions and arguements need to take place under a seperate heading so that people can ask a question otherwise everything is steered immediately off topic.

[ttspud]

These opinions, heated discussions and arguements need to take place under a seperate heading so that people can ask a question otherwise everything is steered immediately off topic.

 

Well, if you really mean that then yes, you're right of course, and it is funny you should say that because it's been done, twice by me, probably more times by others.  First in 2014, a mammoth one going on for a week or so, 82 replies.  Just an open forum to discuss solutions, but it got no further than deciding that there was no problem.  The usual faces objecting.

 

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/49428-original-pre-65-class/

 

Then in 2015, an early go at a solution for discussion.  The usual faces getting abusive as they have in this thread, so I deleted all of the posts.  But what was left is here.  It didn't really get any further than deciding (again) that there is no problem.

 

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/55232-icmtr-pre-65-trials-rules/

 

I have no time to put that much into it again.

 

If you want to start a new discussion, go for it.  If you can manage the abuse, encourage others to participate again, hope that you don't have the usual issue of people deliberately being obtuse, and have already without any doubt opened yourself up to the possibility that there is both a problem and the possibility of a solution, then yes, have a go, if you think you're hard enough!!

[hencam]

Hi Stewart,

I have given up contributing to the thread, it has got out of hand.  

To get back to your question, all I will say is, if you want to try a Drayton Bantam as a bike, to ride in whatever class suits you and the organisers of the club and you are in my neck of the woods, or at an event I am attending, you are very welcome to try my bike for what it is and constructively critique it or discuss the options available with Jim Pickering.  

I am based in the South close to Salisbury, I ride as far south west as Devon with SWCTA , my local clubs are Bath and Somerset classic,  I ride as far north as Cheltenham Hawks and Golden valley, and in a south east direction Aldershot, Bagshot etc.

With all sincerity I can assure you I stand by my original comment of riding in whatever class the organising club put me in if i have not entered in the most appropriate.

The fact remains it is a reliable, lightweight, cheap to maintain, easy to maintain, easy to ride bike, with plenty of spares back up secondhand and new.

The offer is there..................................... and all the best, Hencam 

[old trials fanatic]

Exactly.  More insults and abuse.  More getting personal as predicted.  You make my point perfectly.  Thank You.  You make the world of Pre65 seem so attractive, so welcoming.  Did you manage to apologise to the other party you abused earlier yet?  Ah no, you just made things worse.  Did you try to talk about the issues facing pre65?  No.  You run the Peaks Club, it must be nice to know that you treat the anoraks there so well or have you put them off too? And I am sure that when I go, you will carry on your abuse.  Well Done.

What insult and abuse ? you need to get out more. 

 

"Did you manage to apologise to the other party you abused earlier yet?" Who ? who am i supposed to have abused now ? I havent abused anybody and i am sure if i had Andy would have removed my post and or had a word with me which he hasnt by the way.

 

​My comment was humorous something else you cant seem to grasp.

 

It must be a very different world down where you live in oversensitiveland.

 

It was and is you and your constant diatribes that have and continue to cause anyone thinking of taking part in classic clubs events to have second thoughts when they see P65 stallwarts like yourselves propounding your constant rants and dummy spitting just because nobody adopted the "rules" you proposed.

 

What have Jim Pickering, Alan Whitton, Paul Jackson, Duncan McDonald etc ever done to you ? All they are doing is trying to earn a living supplying parts and bikes to people who want to buy them. If there was no demand then they wouldnt be able to sell them would they ? Instead they are all swamped with work more than they can cope with.

 

Keep having a pop at me and Peak Classic NOT Peaks BTW if you like but at least i am putting events on and trying to give the lads somewhere they can ride on a regular basis. What are you ACTUALLY DOING on the ground to promote trials ? Dont site being a keyboard warrior as most of those dont even ride let alone organise events for others to ride in.

 

Why hijack a thread when all a bloke wanted to know was some advice about "buying a Drayton Bantam" my advice was buy it you wont regret it . You advice so far is dont buy one buy a modern and compete in modern trials instead. OK thats advice and your opinion but then you have to go on and on about how bent P65 trials are etc.

 

Tell that to Ben Butterworth who regularly rides his Ariel against modern bikes and beats them. Then again in your book his Ariel is a cheat bike. Go tell him that to his face this weekend i am sure he will really appreciate your input.

 

[old trials fanatic]

These opinions, heated discussions and arguements need to take place under a seperate heading so that people can ask a question otherwise everything is steered immediately off topic.

Agreed but you cant blame people for taking him to task for his jaundiced views. 

 

Perhaps Andy should start a separate forum for ttspud to rant on ?

[italianstallion]

Ok so it seems I opened a can of worms here which genuinely wasn’t my intention!
 

The reason I asked the original question was purely down to a desire to increase my options based on the choice of trials on offer to me in my centre (modern trials alone not quite being enough to satisfy my appetite at present) – I’m not really a new comer as such and actually already ride a Beta Evo 250 being a member of Stroud Valley MC.

 

My original plan was to have a go at the popular Twinshock series sponsored by Kia after spectating at various rounds (the latest of which attracted 170 riders). Naturally, the last few weeks I have been looking at Honda TLRs, RSs, Yam Majestys, Bultacos etc. However, after a discussion with my dad it became apparent to me that buying a British bike opened far more doors than going down the 80s Twinshock route (the BMCA being one). “Proper” bikes I think was the term he used.

 

Looking at the offerings and having seen a Drayton or two at the Zona1 Kia round in 2015, I decided to pursue this option. I am 35 years old and starting to see the older style of bike as more appealing, appreciating real engineering and character, something that the modern bikes lack – for me the Drayton has all of this yet is still competitive (perhaps not so much in my hands) and looked unlikely to let me down (quality wise).

 

Anyway, I have now purchased a Drayton Bantam with a D14 engine. To cut a long story short, I subsequently found out that Jim Pickering lives only two streets away from my parents after driving the length of the country to buy this bike! I’m pleased to say that the bike is a thing of beauty and I can honestly say that I am over the moon with it. This bike (for me) is still very much in keeping with the Pre-65 period which Jim deserves a lot of credit for. To add to this, Jim has since helped me get my carburation right (Amal, rather than the Mikuni that was fitted), mechanically improved my clutch, and explained various aspects of the bike to help me get started – all at short-notice. Top bloke all round.

 

Regarding the debate that I seem to have unwittingly created, with time ticking, I personally believe that some of what we are seeing relates to new generations of people coming through and those wanting to ride bikes that they have grown up with (not in all cases granted). Twinshocks (to me) ARE older bikes from ‘back in the day’ and thus buying a Drayton was a good compromise with one eye on the Twinshock series (local to me). This shift for me is only going to gather pace (of course flagship nationals such as the Scottish may remain in the current guise) especially with time ebbing away at the number of pure 100% Pre-65 bikes out there. Talk of people of cheating for riding such bikes in Pre-65 classes seems a bit harsh, in many cases people just want to be able to ride as many trials as possible and enjoy themselves regardless of class; I really don’t see the advantage being quite as big as some are making out - a good rider on a rigid will beat me hands down every time. I’d like to think that the older guys out there see the fact that an average rider like me at my age going out and buying this rather than a new Vertigo/TRS/EVO as being a positive thing for this side of the sport. Also (as has been pointed out) where clubs struggle for entries in some of these classes (I’m talking about the average club trial) it’s hard to turn people away and inevitably impossible to cater for everyone - I went to a trial last year where 9 people turned up. Riding older bikes at club level should all be about fun and enjoyment and at the same time be an opportunity to display your pride and joy. I can understand that you may need more comprehensive rules at National level where there is something of note at stake – in these trials it’s essential that the rules are crystal clear.

 

Just my 2-cents (for what its worth). Thanks for all the replies!

 

Stewart