bron yr aur Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Hello all. My first post here, but I've been reading up a LOT, for weeks in fact, on clutch discussions for my bike. But I'm baffled on two things: 1) I cannot, for the life of me, manage to remove my clutch assembly, even after removing the center bolt. Is it possible that on my particular model, there is another retaining part that is preventing its removal? I've seen a few videos, including Jim Snell's, and they just casually remove the assembly. On one video, he lightly bumped/pried with small pry bars to dislodge it. But it just doesn't work for me. In all honesty, that isn't my biggest problem, since the assembly doesn't HAVE to come out. 2) Reassembly problem. This all started with a very stiff clutch. The research I did yielded a huge amount of owners whose clutch fibers had swelled. This turned out to be my problem (10.2 mm thickness for the pack). Having just bought the bike, I don't really have the money at the moment for a new clutch pack and the mineral oil conversion. I decided to just lightly sand each side of the 3 discs to bring them into spec. (What the hey? If I ruined them, at the worst I'd buy new) It worked great. Upon install, I measured finger height at around 17 mm. Everything looks good, right? Well, when trying to press on the clutch cover, I realized that I'm actually having to engage the clutch to get it to seat against the case. The stinking cover is bouncing back approximately 5-8 mm. I can get it to seat, but of course with much effort. Any ideas? I can pull the clutch lever and watch it move out inside the cover. Then, I can press it with my thumb back to its origin, and feel the thing bottom out. As far as my assembly, I next have the bearing, then the flanged washer that rests against the fingers installed. Also, how tight should the 10 bolts be? Finding torque specs on these things has proven to be impossible for me. Basically, since the original bolts (I've since replaced them with tiny hex heads) had a joke of a head on them, I'm assuming there is very little torque needed. I basically snug them slightly once I feel them seat the ring against the post. Sorry for the long winded post. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! I'm dying to get back on this thing. I've had it less than a month, but the clutch has been killing my left arm. It was 2 fingers for 20 minutes, then a 3 finger clutch. Not good for trials I'm sure. Edited May 21, 2016 by bron yr aur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 First I do not think there is enough room for hex headed bolts! Order the correct bolts! The new ones are 7mm needing a 12 pt socket or wrench. Start with new bolts first and new gasket. The 02 and o3 clutch baskets came off hard because they used a bushing not bearings. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the quick reply. TBH these are very tiny heads, barely bigger than the originals. In fact, the head looks to be very close in size to the ones you're speaking of. But I will check. And I can make a new gasket tomorrow. Still, I'm wondering why I can feel the fingers engaging as I press the cover against the case. The basket never moved. The only thing I can think of is that the clutch pump piston in the cover that holds the bearing, could it not be retracting far enough? I'm afraid to pull on it, since I don't know if fluid will come gushing out or what? The parts manual shows an O-ring in there, so that has me a little skeptical. I can definitely feel it hit something when I press it back in. I will say it's not seating up against the cover though. I'm thinking I need to pull it tomorrow and explore the cover more in depth. Edited May 21, 2016 by bron yr aur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Take all the pressure off the clutch master cylinder or just take the lever off. Then push it back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Thanks for the quick reply. TBH these are very tiny heads, barely bigger than the originals. In fact, the head looks to be very close in size to the ones you're speaking of. But I will check. And I can make a new gasket tomorrow. Still, I'm wondering why I can feel the fingers engaging as I press the cover against the case. The basket never moved. The only thing I can think of is that the clutch pump piston in the cover that holds the bearing, could it not be retracting far enough? I'm afraid to pull on it, since I don't know if fluid will come gushing out or what? The parts manual shows an O-ring in there, so that has me a little skeptical. I can definitely feel it hit something when I press it back in. I will say it's not seating up against the cover though. I'm thinking I need to pull it tomorrow and explore the cover more in depth. The " top hat" in the cover that applies the fingers, should push back fully as I recall. Do not pull it out, as you will loose the fluid and have to bleed the air out of the hydrolic side of the system. The fluid should push back into the master cyl. if the lever is not over-adjusted and the M/C piston is able to fully return opening the return port to relieve residual pressure.. If all else fails, you could "crack" the line fitting to allow a bit of fluid out under pressure, but this will not fix the problem. Over adjustment of the 'pin" on the lever and dirt/corrosion may prevent the MC piston from returning fully. The rubber boot where the pin pushes the M/C piston will hold dirt, water and corrosion which will require overhaul or replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoux Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Sounds like you have no freeplay on the Master cylinder actuating pin. That then doesn't allow the clutch fluid to pass back into the Master Cylinder reservoir because the piston seal has now "passed" the bleed hole. So the system has positive pressure that cant be released and it is actuating the clutch slave without the lever being pulled. Also make sure when you have freeplay that there is also some room in the reservoir and it's not "FULL"., so there is somewhere for the fluid to pass back into! Also make sure all the diaphragm fingers are lying flat when you reassemble (easiest to lay the bike over on it's left side) so the clutch thrust bearing and washer don't get hooked up under a finger or two. Also make sure the kickstart quadrant gear friction spring is lined up properly (the "loop" should be at 1 o'clock position when looking directly perpendicular to bike). Also fit your clutch side cover WITHOUT the water pump sitting in the cover. Then when refitting water pump make sure the drive pin is indexed to the cutout in the crankshaft as it goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 You guys are awesome! Thanks so much. I now remember a post that described the MC problem of the hole not lining up and allowing the fluid to return. Now I definitely have the excuse to order my conversoin to the newer system. It's fairly inexpensive if I don't buy the new clutch pack. I'll check the MC this afternoon and and post back here. But that definitely matches what's going on here. I think the biggest thing I'm learning here is how to find parts or help on working on it. I have 2 KX 2 strokes. There obviously is a plethora of Japanese manuals and forums. And I even have a Triumph Bonneville, and still so easy to find help and parts. But these GG's are nearly impossible to find help with, other than this forum. Thanks again, all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Well, I feel really stupid (but in defense of myself, this is my first delve into hydraulic clutches). It turns out the adjustment at the handle was waaaay too far in. I'm assuming that as the clutch pack came out of spec, the PO, instead of addressing the problem properly, just kept adjusting the bolt in. Then, when I brought it back into spec, it was just too tight. Now, the pull is 1 finger and buttery smooth. However, I still haven't ridden the bike yet. It's pouring rain, so I'm hoping the next sunny day I'll be able to test it out and make sure it's got a good bite to it. It shocked me how much .3 mm at the plates affected the handle. But after thinking about it, it makes sense. The fulcrum point of the fingers is so close to the discs that the slightest change would be huge at the tips. So there's my lesson learned for the day. I can tell you it won't happen again! Thanks again all. The help was invaluable. Edited May 21, 2016 by bron yr aur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) If you undo the small bolds of the clutch it will come out. Also you can just push the piston of the clutch back some without a problem. The last part of your last post is spot on right. Those clutches can be everything between brilliant and horrible, the adjustment is crucial! Edited May 23, 2016 by crazybond700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 On the previous gas gas motors I have had the clutch has come off really easily. However on my current bike the hub in centre is really a tight fit into the gearbox input shaft. So I think tolerance on these shafts must be variable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 If you undo the small bolds of the clutch it will come out. Also you can just push the piston of the clutch back some without a problem. The last part of your last post is spot on right. Those clutches can be everything between brilliant and horrible, the adjustment is crucial! I appreciate the input, but trust me, it's not coming out. I removed the clutch and reintalled the ring with the bolts. Then I even used a slide hammer on it, praying that one of the bolts didn't let loose and strip. No go. It wouldn't budge. So I'll worry about it when I have to haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 On the previous gas gas motors I have had the clutch has come off really easily. However on my current bike the hub in centre is really a tight fit into the gearbox input shaft. So I think tolerance on these shafts must be variable Yeah that seems to make the most sense. BTW great name haha. Especially if you saw me, you'd know why I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 I somethimes have that it does not want to go in, but never had it not comming out. Sometimes the bearing inside ''touches'' a little but never had real struggles... Is the problem in the outer part or the inner part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bron yr aur Posted May 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 This is my first venture into the clutch, so sorry for my ignorance. I've seen online where they're in 2 parts, but mine looks a little different, in that from the outside view, it all looks like one piece. But absolutely nothing moves. The entire assembly is stuck in there. And like I said, I even had about a 3 lb slide hammer, giving it fairly firm whacks on alternating sides. I hooked the hammer under the retaining ring with the discs out, so that I didn't risk damaging it. I'm baffled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smarty156 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Photos may help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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