lineaway Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Well we have people that have been riding 3 or more years, all under the modern rules. They still seem to look for a spot to pull the clutch in and just stop, not just ride all the way through. Or they will try to balance while using the clutch for no real reason. If they would of never stopped, would have easily cleaned the section. Just mind boggling that this goes on month after month. From my very first event, the clean was the only score I wanted. These riders insist a three is the safest bet. But I`m glad they ride as we need the scorers! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 As you're from somerset you should be able to find a wet muddy slope or even sloping wet grassy field. Something that quick opening of the throttle will make the rear spin. Then practice away NOT using the clutch. make a steeper slope add in a twist or use higher gears just vary the practice and before long you should get some kid of relationship between right hand and traction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted June 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Had a great day today practicing the tips above. Definitely made some improvements - it was mostly as mentioned that I would immediately grab the clutch and be on/off with that making it really jerky. Figure 8's just using the throttle really helped and gave me a lot of confidence in the bike. Still got a long way to go but it's a start. I was also extremely lucky to get some tuition on technique and bike setup from a very high level rider (British Champion level!) today. Having someone that good give you tips makes a big difference. The only problem is that I have nowhere to practice so I have to try and remember the points when I'm trying to ride sections in a trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmostin Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 Where you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_orange Posted June 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Somerset - UK! Edited June 2, 2020 by al_orange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.e.lucas Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Because of our stupid all day dab rules, trials has hundreds of new riders that really have no real control other than pulling in the clutch and hitting the brakes while dabbing. You are not riding the bike anymore, that is overuse of the clutch! People do this over and over in every section and think they are riding trials. Of course all the good riders use the clutch 90% of the time. We are talking new riders, they think the clutch is there best friend. When in reality every time they use it, a dab or two is the result. Most never learn throttle control, just panic, pull in the clutch and dab. I could take pictures all day long tomorrow at our event of this happening. Convince the club to introduce a time limit, then 5 them? Or throw stuff at them I definitely use the clutch to hold the bike back when it starts getting away from me and that's a hangover from enduro for sure. Stop that. Don't do it in enduro either. Feather the clutch like that when you need momentum but also big power for an obstacle, or if the front starts to come up on a group start Neither are relevant right now, I think My issue is that I tend to unconsciously just hold the throttle about 1/2 and modulate the power using the clutch. I tend to do this even when traction is good. Like my right hand just goes from closed to open and nothing in between. Then the bike either bogs from too little throttle or takes off - either way I end up slipping the clutch to control it. I guess it's just practice but any more structured drills? One expert rider did tell me to get off the clutch once and that did make me ride much more smoothly. Sounds like throttle and clutch control both need work. Take the clutch lever off so you can't use it. 1st is low enough that you can push off a bit and click it without stalling. Ride in wet clay if you can. If not, wet grass. You can pump the tyre way up too. Practice slowing down to idle and rolling on (hard) from there If you lose traction doing something don't chop the throttle, roll off a bit. Chop = lost momentum and more likely to open hard and mess everything up completely Climb hills if Somerset has any. Throttle control = momentum = summit Ride around in circles and stuff with one hand. Throttle control + body position. Learn slow wheelies (after more better clutch skills ) Braaap I'm not really sold on the idea that there is such a thing as overuse of the clutch on a modern bike. I don't believe there is, unless it's used wrong Well we have people that have been riding 3 or more years, all under the modern rules. They still seem to look for a spot to pull the clutch in and just stop, not just ride all the way through. Or they will try to balance while using the clutch for no real reason. If they would of never stopped, would have easily cleaned the section. Just mind boggling that this goes on month after month. From my very first event, the clean was the only score I wanted. These riders insist a three is the safest bet. But I`m glad they ride as we need the scorers! Clean or crash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the replies. My issue is that I tend to unconsciously just hold the throttle about 1/2 and modulate the power using the clutch. I tend to do this even when traction is good. Like my right hand just goes from closed to open and nothing in between. Then the bike either bogs from too little throttle or takes off - either way I end up slipping the clutch to control it. I guess it's just practice but any more structured drills? One expert rider did tell me to get off the clutch once and that did make me ride much more smoothly. Body position is also important for this. Probably you are holding youself on the bars, instead of using your feet. You can try an exercise by trying to use the feet only, and to use your fingers on the bar only, thump and fingers on the trottle, thump and finger on the clutch. Just to see if your body is correct. Often when people are tired they tend to grap the trottle, and use the clutch to compensate. But this is mainly because they pull towards the bars and knees towards the tank, sort of safe mode. I do not agree that the clutch should not be used (or less as possible). This is just a new style of riding, might also depend on what kind of trial your riding. But the new bikes just need more clutch, and are also designed for this purpose. I always learn beginners the clutch is their best (and newest) friend. Brakes they ''understand'' from bycycles (we are a cycle country ) but the clutch is normally something for your feet ( I teach a lot of non-moto riders). Edited June 6, 2016 by crazybond700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I had a good practice tonight with all of this in mind... I typically ride along slowly and use the clutch when slowing down to a crawl and as my way of not stalling when braking. Tonight I used the throttle and a bit of back brake. I quickly realized I should have been doing more of this all along. So often I will use the brake just to stop not to slow down (if that makes any sense) The idea of using it to produce a little drag while giving a little more throttle while still going slow is something I can see as being very useful. It also make a lot of sense when doing wheelies they always say cover the rear brake and I always would just slam it on (with the clutch) if I was about to loose it and bring the front end down quickly... just covering it and using it ever so lightly makes so much more sense I guess I always realized that but never got the hang of it.... I can see many more hours of practice to master all of this but all good fun when you have one of these light bulb moments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) And then there`s the mud with no traction, full rear brake (Yes clutch is used) to get the front up and over an obstacle and at the same time the most traction available. All done with the rear brake, instead of wheel slip. Edited June 18, 2016 by lineaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxmann3 Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Lineaway that is hard to visualise Videos needed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 A little off topic but a useful tip that many are not aware of. Using the rear brake to control traction - or more correctly to control the amount of traction - can help when driving the car, either from a muddy field, or better yet, when there is ice about. To get away from rest keep the footbrake just biting as you feed in the clutch - the drag of the light brake on each wheel prevents the wheel with least grip starting to spin, which would bring the differential into action and remove drive from the wheel where there is grip. Instead of just sitting there with a wheel spinning you will begin to move off. With practice on a muddy patch you can even get to the stage where you can start off in second gear when you know the surface has little grip, and that is even better in really gripless situations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Lineaway that is hard to visualise Videos needed! If done correctly , Bike will pivot around rear axle ... and lift the front , hard to visualize yes , but does work. With practice , a little momentum and spot on timing and weighting , you can get front end lift in zero traction situations . And trying to practice the move when traction is available , Well that can hurt sometimes .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 A little off topic but a useful tip that many are not aware of. Using the rear brake to control traction - or more correctly to control the amount of traction - can help when driving the car, either from a muddy field, or better yet, when there is ice about. To get away from rest keep the footbrake just biting as you feed in the clutch - the drag of the light brake on each wheel prevents the wheel with least grip starting to spin, which would bring the differential into action and remove drive from the wheel where there is grip. Instead of just sitting there with a wheel spinning you will begin to move off. With practice on a muddy patch you can even get to the stage where you can start off in second gear when you know the surface has little grip, and that is even better in really gripless situations. Old School traction control ! no electronics needed ! works great in snow too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 There was an excellent book available in the late 70s early 80s by Len Weed and Lane Leavitt and the main point put across in the text was the need to apply throttle in good traction areas and then backing off when on poor traction areas.This method was described as Attack... Coast ,and is of course the method that you describe above The low revs come from the use of higher gears or gearing that more proficient riders will use which will help to prevent wheel spin on surfaces with poor grip. a higher gear will spin more easily with worse throttle control. (better riders master this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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