Trials Bike Design

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Once over someone in the market for a new bike could go along to the local dealer and check out the bikes, if trials bikes were on show, the basic shape still looked like a regular motorcycle.

Even if the punter thought he may give trials a try but wasn't that interested in the sport, he could still have a useful trail machine for casual riding.

Now the bikes are so small and compact with no fuel range or possibility of sitting down on trails the only person interested is the trials rider, I have heard many times people ask can I get a seat and bigger tank for it.

This picture of the Scorpa long ride shows you can have a full blown trials bike with larger capacity tank and a seat, without loosing any of the technology, this could attract more buyers, it did in the past and even got people into trials, once they found out what the bike could do and how much fun it was.

Why don't more of the companies offer this feature ? I don't mean a duel purpose bike,but a full blown trials iron with a decent tank and seat.

[steve fracy]

I agree with you on that one Ishy! I also think that if Scorpa could get the price of the little 125 4T down a bit it would be a nice starter bike for getting people into it too. Perhaps in the future we could see some more displacement structured classes too!

[bikespace]

Yep - I agree. Most people would be verging on being a right prima donna if they even thought that thy might need the extra manouverability that having no seat gives you. Christ, my legs don't bend enough any more to get down that low. I can dab about 5 foot below the bike at the moment, but rarely have to.

Would be good to get the option on more of the bikes.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I didn't want to put " because old gits like me, can't bend our legs enough to sit on the new scoots

[brian r]

Personally I think this is especially true for the kids bikes.

The kids would like to sit down to learn and be able to stand up

in time.

[pete]

Hear Hear!

I learnt on a little Honda TLM 50, and it was great. Easy to sit on, but not too comfortable. It was much easier to stand on than to sit, but sitting was there if it was needed. It just pushed me onto standing instead of sitting, by letting me find that really I did have more control when standing.

(Can't really explain it!)

It let me find my way in my own time, and i'm sure that I would be a much worse (if that is possible!!) rider now if I didn't have that transition period the Honda gave me.

I think that all manufacturers should offer it as an option, especially for the very small and the top end of the range, to cater for those starting, and those doing road trials. The middle ranges (125, 200) tend to be more used in local events, and so sitting is not needed. Also they tend to be older riders who don't need the confidence boost a seat gives you!

(If you have waded through this, congratulations!)

Pete

[scorpa3]

I have a Scorpa SY250, just as a matter of interest I tried a Long-Ride last year, although it has a bigger tank which is useful, the seat (for me) was a waste of time, it just wasn't big enough to sit on but unlike the standard SY, it pushed me forward into the tank. Worse than sitting on the bike without the seat.

If a seat option is offered it should atleast be a proper solo seat. Problem is; if it has a bigger (read thicker) seat, it takes the seat height over the maximum required to register the bike with DVLA as a trials bike, so therefore needs type approval (or SVA)and all the things that requires like indicators etc.

Now take a look at the new fourstroke T-Ride and now your talking, I love the look of that but one of those would certainly be at least some handicap in a trial.

Comfort or competitive? mmmm

[ask greeves]

Reading this thread, I noticed 'it takes the seat height over the maximum required to register the bike with DVLA as a trials bike, so therefore needs type approval (or SVA)' being a very very old git and i'm not upto speed on the latest regulations. I didn't know the DVLA had a special registration for trials bikes. Can anybody give me the info regarding registration or point me in the right direction. thanks

[the artist formerly known as ish]

New one on me how do the twin shock lads register thier machines, does it only apply to new bikes?

[scorpa3]

I have no idea what regulations govern the registration of older machines, however to register a new trials bike (or enduro bikes) for the road, the trials bike must have a minimum ground clearance and a maximum seat height. (Enduro bikes must have a minimum seat height of 900mm, I can't remember the max height for trials, sorry)

If your bike qualifies as a trials bike, it does not need a certificate of conformity or sva test (same thing but done on an individual machine) this way you will not have to have things such as road legal tyres, lights etc to ge registered.

All you need is proof of its age (certificate of newness) insurance, proof of id and a cheque for

[steve shakeshaft]

Interesting topic. The Beamish I've just bought has a registration document but the bike has a "Q" plate. It has never been "on the road" as such. Apparently this is because despite the bike being built as a 78 model the engine number cannot be relied upon (I am told) to date the bike. Ofcourse, the dymo tape frame number has fallen off.

I hope to track down an "expert" acceptable to the DVLA in order to get an age related plate. Any suggestions on doing this?

On a related note- The bike has no lights, rear reflector, horn or speedo. Can it be put on the road with an MOT and Tax? Or is a 78 bike Tax exempt?

Thanks for the help.

[gizza5]

Not so much a big tank, but Kinel has a seat option for the Rev-3 series.

I am sure he has got a patent on it

[scorpa3]

The Beamish I've just bought has a registration document but the bike has a "Q" plate.

Usually, Q plates are issued for kit cars when the original body has been changed.

In the case of a Beamish Suzuki, I have a feeling that the Q plate would have been issued because the frame (like a body on a kit car) had been changed from the original Suzuki one.

This would mean that any type approval or certificates of newness (or what ever was used in the early 80's) would not apply to the Beamish frame, so a Q plate would have been issued.

I guess that DVLA would have a record of the Q number and I should think it is likely that it would still apply. There is therefore no reason why the bike shouldn't get a daytime MOT and be used on the road.

In my experience with kit cars, the only problem you may find is getting insurance on a Q plate, but this can be done.

Hope this helps.

Pete

[woody]

If you had a frame number you could try the Vintage Motorcycle Cub in Burton-upon-Trent to date your Beamish as they are pretty well up to date with information on most bikes. A dating certificate from them is sufficient to obtain an age related plate from DVLA. DVLA will only register with an age related plate from frame number.

Q plates are also issued when a vehicle that is not new is being registered without proof of its age, such as certificate of newness or dating certificate. Beamishes were registered as new vehicles with no problem on correct letter plate as they would have had a certificate of newness from Suzuki as they were official conversions. Check the date it was registered, it may not have been done at the time of original purchase from a dealer. Once a Q plate has been issued to a vehicle it cannot be changed at a later date to an age related one, so I was once told, but the vagaries of DVLA are such that the rules are interpreted differently from area to area and even from individual to individual within those centres, so it may not be impossible.

If that rule still stands however and you can get proof of age, one possibility is to just fill out the form and apply for a registration as though it had never been done. If you have a vehicle you know was registered but no longer have the V5 or record of the number for, DVLA can't/won't advise you of the registration number from the chassis number, even though it is obviously on their database. When I asked about what I could do to obtain a number for a bike I knew was registered, but I didn't know the number for, they said apply in the normal way. When I asked if a new application would bring up the old number, bearing in mind the chassis number would be the same, they said no..... If it did, you are only in the situation you are in now, still with a Q plate.

For MOT, you only need a horn that emits a constant sound, no lights, speedo, mirrors etc. so just get a bicycle one from Halfords. 1973 is tax-exempt cut-off date.

[steve shakeshaft]

Pete, Woody, thank you for such brilliant info! From the VJMCC (Vintage Japanese MCC) website, there is a form at the DVLA to revert from a Q plate to an age related one.

I never realised researching the history of this bike would be so interesting.

Apparently, the frame numbers were put onto the frame in Dymo-Tape. So it fell off within a few days. The frame numbers were taken directly from the engine number. But the engine will most likely not be the same age as the bike. Apparently, it is quite possible to have a 78 build bike with an engine from (say) 75 or 76 and it would have been that way from new. So I am told that the bike cannot be dated from the engine/frame number!

I may never get the bike off a Q plate, but it is interesting just trying. I've learned loads.

Thanks.