ttspud Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 @on it You are going off the deep end. Quote Ask original riders ? they are in there 80s now "as in those that ride to the original rules on original bikes" SO WHY DONT YOU RIDE IN THAT CLASS ? they manage too WHY NOT YOU If you had taken any notice at all, I do still ride an original bike on the hard course. No, I am not in my 80s and I see no riders of original bikes in their 80s in the hard course in my class. As I understand it, you don't ride pre65 at all, as you say " NO I do not ride or own a pre 65 bike ". So before drawing the wrong conclusions perhaps you could start by getting your facts straight. Quote Nothing you have come up with is going to save a failing championship which is the topic Well, the new ACU rules/classes have obviously failed and to be fair they are terrible, most people could have pointed that out before they made it to the entry form. Overlapping classes and so on. Some classes have not even attracted any entries at all. I am sure that the committee worked hard to come up with those classes, but perhaps they should have consulted someone more experienced to help, such as the person who was part of the original creation himself. And the failure is not something that has just happened nor that will quickly be solved by any means., nor just for that series but across the entire sport. It has taken decades of deterioration (though an ACU representative was reported to have called it 'evolution') to get to this point, and it will likely take decades of work to put it right, if ever. You may attack my idea, you may attack anyone who dares to put forward evidence that actually preserving the machinery works (as it does in all other vintage sports of which pre65 is) at keeping entry numbers up, you may get visceral and abusive, ranting, putting forward things that are untrue, as others here do, and so on, but in the end, as you say, it is the sport that is suffering, when the original series that had 450 entrants who made the final standings by entering at least x different events is now down to just a few modified bikes, one or two original bikes, and a few more pre85 bikes and even that cant sustain an entry worth putting on an event for for that series, perhaps it is time to not discount all ideas about allowing machinery to be nothing like pre65 and pushing out all original bikes. To at least try? But this has been said a thousand times, nothing changes, and it all falls on deaf ears. "Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted", just means that people seem to have given in. Then, usually, in the end when the discourse becomes overly abusive, it becomes a waste of time discussing it at all and then no-one gains, not the sport, no-one. I will continue to enter, continue to get my fives, as I have done for years and enjoy the day greatly as long as the event in my area survives, and touch wood, it is. There are many other issues affecting it too, but for now it goes on. Next year the cost will go up dramatically or they will need to find another venue, neither an easy choice given it is already under pressure and has always been at the same venue. So it obviously isnt just the decline of original bikes due to the flouting of the rules, but the sport is under pressure from many other factors too. I have simply been trying to address an issue that I can help with hopefully without affecting much else. To me, Improving one issue is always a good thing even if it is not the solution to all of the problems facing the sport. Quote Sad to say looks like championships are going to be a thing of the past Yes, it is terribly sad, my heart goes out to those clubs trying to keep the events going, which is exactly where we came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 well they we have it ! SAME as other vintage sports it is NOT and never will be That stable door was opened a long long time ago and the horse is long dead ! yes people have given up ,with what they have to work with its the best of a bad job so good or bad there is a set of rules to follow "the end" but suppose its easy to blame the rules for everything .Yes but a new set of rules will turn the clock back to the good old days when the series had 450 how long ago was that, NO TIMES and PEOPLE move on, them days have LONG GONE ! i would love to see the sport back to the numbers of the 70s dont ever think I will for your info ttspud i ride a twinshock IN championships i also ride a new bike IN championships and i seen how things are going and I hear people say it needs another class/ another course & will that then fix everything ! no because someone will not like them rules or that course and round we go again !!!!!! Sorry WHY is it so important to save a original bike ?, if it so special or worth a fortune why ride it in sections were it could get damaged ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Quote WHY is it so important to save a original bike ? That is a good question. The simple answer is why not? The sport was created to save the original bikes in the first place against bikes that make them uncompetitive. That is happening again. The theory has not changed. Fair sport breeds popularity, unfair sport kills it. There are riders who want to ride original bikes fairly, there are bikes that can be ridden and that can help the sport for everyone by keeping numbers up, entry fees down and hopefully help prevent events failing. Just by adding a sub-class, twinshocks wont be affected, nor would modifieds, so what exactly is the problem in trying to include original bikes fairly (the rules for modified bikes do not change, nor do the classes or courses)? Edited July 26, 2017 by ttspud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387a Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 As one of the organising team of two that created the first ever pre-65 trial I suspect some members may be interested in my thoughts and comments on the topic. The prime, and potentially most significant point is that we were misguided and got it all wrong in the first place! The fact is that we could no longer cope on our older, heavier British bikes in the sections that were being chosen to take marks off the Spanish invasion - although some of the lightweights could cope, as Bill Wilkinson and Roy Peplow so ably demonstrated by winning the SSDT on their Greeves and Cub machines, beating Sammy and all the other riders on on their Bultaco and Montesa machines. The point that we missed was that we wished to retain the SECTIONS set to the same standard of difficulty that they were before 1965 - which was precisely what I insisted upon whilst I was the Series Coordinator for the championship which developed into the Sammy Miller series, and ran successfully for the first fourteen years. Reading all the previous posts I am saddened by all the niggling, moaning and general mischief they so often demonstrate - what has happened to taking part in order to ENJOY the pastime......................... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387a Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 (edited) Sorry, trialsrfun, I regret your thoughts on the Sammy Miller series are somewhat astray. All the British built twostrokes were welcomed and regularly made up the bulk of the entry. There was even a class for rigid/vintage twostrokes which the Price brothers usually dominated on their 125cc DMWs. Edited July 27, 2017 by laird387a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387a Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 I organised many of those first trials and the only one that we did not include twostrokes was that first Bigger Banger trial on Shawforth, in the second we included all the Villiers twostrokes and there were even a couple of rigid Bantams in the entry. Perhaps a photograph taken by Mary of me in action in a pre-65 trial might help...................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 Hi Guy's. Look it just proves that the term PRE65 referred to the type of section more than the machine, as the Photo of Deryk on his Greeves proves, Banana forks were I think 1967? Clean bike though Deryk just like all the machines you owned and rebuilt for discerning owners. Forget the ACU series we knew they did not want it to work. Just stick with the clubs that will put on an Olde Time road trial with Olde type sections, and we will get the plot back. But trials still just need to be for the fun of competing whatever you are riding, or forget it, and enjoy wandering around Motorcycle museums. Regards Charlie.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Quote Forget the ACU series we knew they did not want it to work Well, whatever their motivation, the ACU series events look to have been cancelled and so solving the problem for that series is moot now. The problem that apparently was never there and did not need solving for so long has finally bitten. I just hope that other clubs & events wake up and stop denying that there is an issue before they are lost too. And if they are, well, there is always fishing!!! Take care all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) Reality check why have events been cancelled oh riders dont put the entries in A 3 course 6 class event "forgot the sub class will sort all that that out !!!!!!!!! OH I really wish we could go back to the good old days of trials when riders just got on with it and not whinge so much .ITS now time for another reality check its the riders attitude that have changed " i dont want a hard day trialing or lose any marks" ,does lots of marks = A hard trial or is it a unfit crap rider who finds out A BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP is not the place for him , ttspud I would not take up fishing coz someone will catch a bigger fish than you then you will whinge about that Edited July 28, 2017 by on it info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Quote on it: its the riders attitude that have changed I know, they are weedy, unfit buggers, all of them!! Back in the day they were sinuey, athletic types, the post-war, rationed lot, none of this takeaway generation. Should really stick to darts and pottery, whinging all the time, how dare they. Why do we have to have riders at all? And do they enter the events, no, all they do is moan. All they do is complain. Awful. Oh well, not to worry, it is all water under the bridge now. Good points all. Enjoy your championships and don't worry about it, I am sure that you will beat them all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 2 hours ago, ttspud said: I know, they are weedy, unfit buggers, all of them!! Back in the day they were sinuey, athletic types, the post-war, rationed lot, none of this takeaway generation. Should really stick to darts and pottery, whinging all the time, how dare they. Why do we have to have riders at all? And do they enter the events, no, all they do is moan. All they do is complain. Awful. Oh well, not to worry, it is all water under the bridge now. Good points all. Enjoy your championships and don't worry about it, I am sure that you will beat them all!!! we dont have any riders do we thats the problem !!!!! trials put on for them to ride they dont enter BUT come on here whinging trials are canceled, . As for attitude did they ride 1 course & just got on with it ? NOW 6 classes 3 courses no entries. Thank you yes i do ! got to go practice bye ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Quote on it: Thank you yes i do ! Well good & you're welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collyolly Posted July 29, 2017 Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 Can't believe this load of c&&p is still going on, just got back from a week away on holiday to find the old 'original bike' stuff has started again, bet these posts are deleated and we never get to see the bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttspud Posted July 29, 2017 Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 @collyolly Thanks for your contribution, completely useless and abusive as always. I hope you had a nice holiday wherever you were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Regs and entry form for the Greensmith Memorial trial should be appearing on the front page shortly. This is no longer a round of the ACU Classic but retains the same format as previous years which is one lap of around 35 miles around the Clee Hill in Shropshire. The trial caters for the usual British bikes and twinshocks, there's a class for rigids and British / twinshock sidecars, but this year the trial is also open to over 50s and over 60s on modern bikes. Two routes will be set as usual and I guess if you're over 60 and want the hard route, just enter as over 50... Let's not let this one slide away into the mists of time, these trials need to be kept alive so get your entries in. Entry limit is 100. The Northern British bike round at Llangollen had 100+ entries last weekend for a road trial and that was British Bikes only, so riders are out there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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