iconic558 Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Hi guys, just a quick hi, not been around for a while....my fleet of Gixers, other roadbikes, new to me Firestorm, track day car & my love of track days at Snetterton has kept me busy from realising my dream as a World Trials 'Chump'. OK, I dug Speedy out of her hibernation and couldn't free off the clutch, no matter what I did. Next weekend tried again and finally got her to free off but with terrible clutch drag. So yesterday (these things take time!) I stripped the clutch down and my gearbox oil was contaminated with water (again) looking for all purposes like she had done a head gasket - as if watercooled - she was that bad. Seems to be a recurring theme with the old girl I can only assume water is getting in past the clutch cable entry point. I have been using 10/40 engine with good results....gave me less drag than ATF....which seems counter intuitive? I have always had a problem with too much slack in the clutch cable, to the point that I had run out of adjustment at the clutch perch. I have a cable from Martin ready to fit so hopefully this will be OK now? Her last owner has done the clutch actuating arm mod...extending it....she also runs all the springs and has never had a heavy clutch. I have roughed up the steel plates on a machine mounted rotary wire brush then further roughed them up with 80 grit. It has occured to me why trials bikes don't use MX style steels whereby the surface has oodles of indents to stop the 'sticking' action. I seem to remember changing out the steels on my Montesa 315R to MX CR 125 ones and this cured the sticky clutch on that old barge. Maybe I should spend an afternoon in front on the TV with my 'Snide Stick' watching old Minder's with a centre punch stamping hundreds of little holes in the steels, but then I suppose they would dressing by a surface grinder to take the high spots off...? I've rough up (gently) the friction plates and cleaned up the oil drain slots. I'm just about to dive into the actuator assembly itself, any tips on what to do or look for here...I hear and read of owners exchanging views about the size their balls & don't wish to feel erm....undersized Edited May 13, 2017 by iconic558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 Mmmh to the clutch design it's the same for the 350cc MX and GS bikes so the clutch can cope with much more power. This is the -as I think- the reason why it sticks always a bit in the beginning. The problem can be solved a bit running ATF or this Elf HTX 740 which I use. To the clutch cable, here you might get one from Venhill as they provide a cable that do seal the cable much better to the clutch casing. I think it will help a lot to tighten the casing. To the clutch engaging you might look up if there is some wear in the mechanics. The Enduro and MX models used bigger balls and a longer engaging arm this will help action wise and will lower the force you need to engage a bit. (at least at my SWM and from a fellow I know, but heard now it van too stiffen the set up?). The clutch engage assembly kit is provided from Rotax, if you have problems getting one send me an PM, there is a dealer in Italy which still sell them nut you need a trade tax number and they don't speak English. Last not least a new set of clutch plates might be a good investiture too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisse Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I have just got bigger balls and a longer action on mine... still makes my wrist ache a little if I use it too much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbohead Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 Get an old engine like this, or at least the left hand side case of it. Then forget all clutch related issues for good. No balls at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 cheers guys, I've given up for today, the new cable is still too long...not overall length but too much free inner cable. I don't have enough adjustment at the clutch perch to take out the slack....I'm wondering if I have something missing at the clutch cover end? My cable sits deep in the cover with no other fittings....should the be another adjuster at the clutch cover end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 There is an adjuster at the spindle of the inner clutchlever. With this screw you can adjust the clutch. To do so you have to unthighten the security nut for which you need the little nut wrench from Rotax. To get to the adjuster screw and secure nut you just have to unscrew the rear plastic plug of the clutch case. Don't forget to rethighten the secure nut properly after adjusting the screw. Mostly you have to hold the adjusting screw with a screwdriver whilst thighten the secure nut and all this happens inside ... wrist clock mechanics ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 The actuator adjustment is not a problem....is this slack in the cable.two cables same issue....strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Make a new cable, or cut inner and use a solderless nipple if you can solder. Use quality silicon round the cable entry point. Also check/ silicon round the manifold as water can enter there. Check condition of oil fill plug and that the breather hose is up under the tank. Edited October 1, 2016 by b40rt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbohead Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 b40rt and pschrauber are absolutely right. A little silicone at the clutch cable entry point is also nice to have. A good evening's therapy and everything will be OK, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Make a new cable, or cut inner and use a solderless nipple if you can solder. Use quality silicon round the cable entry point. Also check/ silicon round the manifold as water can enter there. Check condition of oil fill plug and that the breather hose is up under the tank. I've never made or altered cable, something I should be doing I think. ....solderless cable nipple or solder type which is best? ...will a normal electrical soldering iron be OK or is something more heavyweight needed? Is it simply a case of cutting the cable at the perch end, then fitting the new cable and hey presto? as always, many thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Maybe I need this sort of thing? I remember a trial on Speedy when the front brake cable broke a nipple at the perch end after only 10 hours use.....caused an expensive & frustrating DNF http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Throttle-Clutch-Cable-Repair-Kit-Motorcycle-MX-Off-Road-Motorbike-/331632590360?hash=item4d36d7be18:g:EFUAAOSwgQ9V1Glj Edited October 2, 2016 by iconic558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Yep it is as simple if you have a nipple that will fit, if you have a soldering iron or pot and a piece of soldering wire or a block and Las not least some flux. I personal would recommend to spread the wires at the end, to perform this I first place the nipple on the wire then place the wire in a vice so that just as much of the wire look out as the nipple is in thickness then I speed the wires to all directions even try to bend them a bit so it looks like a "bird cage". Then pull the nipple over the "nest" dunk it in flux and then heat it up solder it. Second possibility is to buy a new cable from Venhill which has the advantage that it has the right connector with an inbuilt o-ring. Here the cable with inbuilt connector, (I think it's cheaper from Venhill directly): http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SWM-250-320-CLUTCH-CABLE-TRIALS-1978-1983-VENHILL-/350711778233?nav=SEARCH Edited October 2, 2016 by pschrauber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) Yep it is as simple if you have a nipple that will fit, if you have a soldering iron or pot and a piece of soldering wire or a block and Las not least some flux. I personal would recommend to spread the wires at the end, to perform this I first place the nipple on the wire then place the wire in a vice so that just as much of the wire look out as the nipple is in thickness then I speed the wires to all directions even try to bend them a bit so it looks like a "bird cage". Then pull the nipple over the "nest" dunk it in flux and then heat it up solder it. Second possibility is to buy a new cable from Venhill which has the advantage that it has the right connector with an inbuilt o-ring. Here the cable with inbuilt connector, (I think it's cheaper from Venhill directly): http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-SWM-250-320-CLUTCH-CABLE-TRIALS-1978-1983-VENHILL-/350711778233?nav=SEARCH thanks for the reply. The clutch cable that came with the bike is a Venhill, the new replacement that I have had for over a year, now as a spare, is from Martin @ SWM Moto...which makes me think that something somewhere isn't right with my bike....but what I don't know? When I rebuilt Speedy a couple of years ago, I had to raise the 'outer cable' out of the 'clutch-cover-cable-entry-hole' by some 10mm by inserting a fitting I made up. This meant I now had some spare adjustment left at the clutch lever perch.....if that makes sense? So thinking about things my cable out is around 20mm too long on both cables. The clutch actuating arm is fine (not breaking/broken) as are the rest of the mechanicals in there....it's as if the cable entry hole in the clutch cover is simply too deep....... Edited October 2, 2016 by iconic558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I'm just getting my head in a fizz here.... ....would an incorrect cable route cause this problem?...it can't do can it?...no matter what the route the cables relationship to the inner and outer is the same and wouldn't effect the cable inners length...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted October 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Depth of clutch cover cable entry hole is 14mm....so that can't the problem if I'm looking for 20mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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