Just Dug Speedy Out And Terrible Clutch Drag; Fixed/Update!

[iconic558]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Solderless-Nipples-6mm-Motorcycle-Scooter-Quad-Car-Throttle-Choke-Decompressor-/190931066950?hash=item2c7460e046:g:E48AAOxyg7xSW9tG

 

solderless nipple....nice design but a touch pricey I thought?

[iconic558]

Just been comparing cables and the Venhill has a 7mm nipple and Martin's has a 9.5mm nipple...both are which are correct depending on what lever are used I guess?

 

Martins inner looks the beefier of the two cables I will add and I think I will modify my lever's to suit.

[brownie001]

Hi, here's a picture of the Venhill clutch cable and the length of the inner. This cable fits my 80 125 with a lengthened arm and my 81 320 with the Aprillia arm conversion ( see separate threads for pics, Barnett Clutches).

The clutch lightness is ok but it's not a one/two finger thing. A hardly use it anyway so that's not a problem for me.

I discussed the drag problem with Reinhard Hallat of Rotax.de and his suggestion was to use non organic sintered clutch plates. That's what's in the 125 and the clutch separates 100% when stone cold. I wanted the same, from Surflex in Italy, for the 320 when I rebuilt it. None were available at that time so I opted for Barnett carbon fibre plates. They also separate 100% when stone cold.

The best solution for a really light clutch would be the Aprillia casing. Hens teeth are more common nowdays. Next best solution is the lever on top of the engine as per the Jumbos. Easy to do and not at all expensive. Even cheaper is ride sections nonstop and clutchless. That's another story though.

 

[b40rt]

I use an electric soldering iron when making cables, definitely hot enough. I cut the outer to size first and fit to bike, then solder one nipple on and fit to bike, mark and cut. Thread second nipple on, unravel slightly and spread it and punch it to form a cat's ar#se. Apply plumbers flux to wire and insert the pre heated soldering iron, the flux will bubble and run out the bottom, introduce the solder until it fills the nipple. Once full allow it to cool and dress with an angle grinder. The soldering iron should be tinned prior to using.

[motoswm]

1. Are you using Domino levers...if not you may need to alter the cable.

 

2. Is everything assembled as shown in the attached diagram....is the thrust plate the correct way round, are there 2 x 3mm thick washers either side of the bearing/basket, do you have 6 friction plates, separated by 5 x 1mm thick metal plates and one 1.5mm metal plate on the outside of the basket.

 

3. Is the clutch adjusted correctly. Slacken off the cable ant the handlebar end. Wind in the grub screw on the clutch arm until it just touches the thrust plate, then take up the slack at the lever end. Use this as a starting point and adjust the grub screw by a quarter turn at a time until it frees off and doesn't slip....but remember to slacken off at the handlebar end every time you adjust.

 

[iconic558]

Martin, I think you nailed it, I just fitted another lever assembly, one of those 3 position jobs and the cable was now the correct length....could not use it though as the nipple is for 8mm and buggered it drilling it out to suit the larger cable nippled of your clutch cable

 

I believe the perchs are those cheap £15 a pair jobs, been fine to be honest, but not suitable for my needs. A year ago I thought about Domino perchs, may take the plunge now.

 

Cheers as always guys, for the help and assistance.

 

PS I thought you were in Italy today Martin, soaking up Spritz's, Bellini's and Lemon Cello's?

[iconic558]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162153466828?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

 

I think these are the jobs I need, two piece perchs with the underneath fittings?

 

I looked on your website Martin but couldn't see the perch assemblies?

 

many thanks

[iconic558]

Ok, so like a lot of things in life it was a mix of things, but the biggest difference was the use of incorrect levers.

 

Domino's were OE back when they were new and so all the cables are made to fit the Domino's. Also, the Domino gives a larger movement of the actuating arm.

 

That said here are a few other things i addressed:

 

1/ stripped clutch and roughed up the steel plates using a machine wire brush then 140 grit wet 'n dry, I also took the 'shine' off the friction plates. I filed the oil drain gaps in the friction plates free of glue 'n rubbish.

 

2/ I noted that the acutuating arm could be made to move a bit more at the bottom of its travel by around 10mm by removing some casting off the clutch cover where the front of the two plastic plugs are situated. This casting was restricting movement of the arm at its bottom position.

 

3/ used ATF instead of the manuals stated engine oil. I did use this before but went back to it after the ATF didn't really make much difference...that ATF was Dexron 3, I'm now using Dexron 4 which is what most modern auto's use and is backwards compatible.

 

4/ Clutch actuating lock-nut now set with zero clearance but NOT tight, like a feeler gauge would be on a valve clearance job

 

5/ Unblocked the gearbox breather at the top of the engine....that oil gets hot and can cause condensation...or so my brit bike loving mate says, but it must be there for a purpose.

 

 

result.....started her up from cold, put her in gear and she just sat there, no lurching off & reving the bike in gear with brakes on whilst waiting for the plates to free off....amazing....my Beta Rev wasn't this good.

 

One thing I will do is never put her away again for a extended period without draining the gearbox oil, water comtamination in oil caused some of the problems.

 

Lever action isn't too heavy and I'm using all the springs, I also have a new clutch cable too so this all helps.

 

Hope this helps someone else, cheers for the help guys.

[iconic558]

Just a quick update on the Speedy clutch...its been a while..ohh and reading that back again I forgot to mention I filed the slight wear slots off my clutch basket.

I've been done a few trials and a fair bit of practicing, though lately more observing...good for the soul, a bit of observing.

At last weeks trial I indulged in the 'try the clutch on ya neighbours bike in the queue' routine and I gota say my Speedy is super slick, two finger light and progressive compared to most twinshocks I tried, Beamish, TY175, Bultaco, Ossa.

Now this is odd as the one thing people whinge about on Speedies is the clutch, but I gota say mine is great. I did chat to someone at a 'well known cable company' before christmas and was told a cable is past it's best after 3 months of off road work if used every weekend. It also needs to be cleaned using WD-40 internally after every event or jet washing...surprised me, I thought like most that a cable is a 'fit 'n forget fa years or breaks' which is why there are so many "my clutch...." issues I guess? I've been using a cable oiler and 3 in 1 and been doing in situ' being thte lazy type

"After a race meeting or as often as possible after power washing, remove the cables from the bike and flush through with with a light lubricant spray such as "WD40". Keep flushing them through until the fluid runs clear. You do not need to lubricate Venhill cables with oil as this will increase friction between the inner wire and the Teflon tubing. Check cable routing when re-fitting and ensure the cables do not snag when steering lock to lock."

One thing to note is that Speedy is starting to be reluctant to find neutral again even with new ATF, so I'll be stripping the steels out again soon and roughing them up again, this time I'll be using 80 grit as I think it may last longer with the rough grade surface finish.

I just wish 'they' did dimpled steels like MX bikes. I cured my Montesa 315R's dreadful clutch drag instantly by fitting CR125 steels. If I had a mill with a dividing head and a few days spare I'd be drilling small countersink type holes in the steels to see how that goes?

I've been changing the oil every few 3 months and still using ATF.

NB:- When I had my Beta REV3 even after doing the forum 'clutch fix' I never did cure the dragging....but I'd never 'roughed up' my steels.

NBB:- I've a Montesa 247C too now....and you think the SWM clutch mechanism is 'creative'? Well them Spanish engineers bless them....try a brass bush for a thrust bearing that came in various thickness's, a clutch basket/pack that needs to be removed to remove plates, with pins restraining the springs and no other easy adjustment bar the cable. Saying that it does the job though a its very on and off, no drag, easy gear slection but with a heavy pull that should be easier when the new cable is fitted?

hope this helps someone.

Edited May 13, 2017 by iconic558