What Do The Organising Bodies Do?

[rabie]

re cost

 

both sides are right

 

a cheap sport with low entry fees, low insurance, low licence fees is good for creating a low barrier to entry, etc

 

a dearer sport would raise more money to do more things. some people would like funds to be raised to do stuff - be it political lobbying, training future stars, buying land, investing in venues, etc.

[shakennstirred]

Really ? After all its not a licence - it proves nothing other than a registration card.There is no proof of competence or qualification,so why should it cost any more - esp as the AMCA seem to manage happily without it. Trials has always been a low money sport,ramping up costs would spoil it,probably forever.

The ACU aren't bothered if you can ride the bike or not, they just want the money you pay for the licence.

[breagh]

I can't comment pn the ACU as it's the SACU up here but all their Trials committee members up here seem to be running about in Ferraris and everytime I phone them they're in the South of France.

 

Amazing how far the licence (Reg card up here) fee goes after administering the sport and running all the championships.

 

 

[b40rt]

I can't comment pn the ACU as it's the SACU up here but all their Trials committee members up here seem to be running about in Ferraris and everytime I phone them they're in the South of France.

Amazing how far the licence (Reg card up here) fee goes after administering the sport and running all the championships.

Think you need your medication reassessed.

[breagh]

You aren't bothered whether I ride my bike or not so don't kid me you're worried about my medication.

[on it]

well my 10p worth. Not a lot i dont see them finding land / putting flags in / getting observers for trials  but they soon have a go at a club or a official if its not done the way they want it !  remember club officials do it for the love of the sport & in there OWN time , I keep hearing  the word cheep ? well if i pay £15 entry and observe your self, I may as well just go and practice, its down to value for money sorry acu you are just not cutting it ! How much money has been raised  from trials ? and found its way back into the sport ? or put it another way how much trials land dose the acu own ? / no land no trials , The acu and trials  have been going a lot of years !

Edited November 23, 2016 by on it

[nigel dabster]

Ive heard it all now, the ACU should find land and observers? You are joking?

 

 

[nigel dabster]

Really ? After all its not a licence - it proves nothing other than a registration card.There is no proof of competence or qualification,so why should it cost any more - esp as the AMCA seem to manage happily without it. Trials has always been a low money sport,ramping up costs would spoil it,probably forever.

 

Would we really all pack up if it was £20? We buy 4k bikes but its still the cheapest part of competing and the benefits are numerous.

[on it]

Not a joke ! ."Nigel"  the man that wanted ACU to buy a  truck, !!!!!   Lets look at the scott  how much problem was caused to the club with land problems from  the national parks ?  dont see the ACU stepping up to sort it out, Left to the club ... Trials clubs buy land then pay the ACU  for the privilege to run a trial on there own land put on by volunteers ,  ACU championship  trial its all down to a club to sort !  SO what dose the ACU do then Nigel ? they can not even make there mind up what set of  rules to use stop/or non stop !  some governing  body !  Remember the ACU  just dont get the £10 registration fee they also get  money from every entry  of every trial run  

Edited November 24, 2016 by on it

[jimmyl]

I know at least 2 ACU T&E committee members that mark out trials, observe etc and are the clubs that you say are picked on by the ACU.

In this claim driven world getting all the Ts crossed and Is dotted is the only way to avoid huge payouts or negligence charges. Admin costs money unfortunately

A percentage of the money paid to the ACU from running an event is for insurance to cover officials, 3rd parties and even riders. As an official you are covered even when marking out a trial or going to look at a venue for sections. Easy to knock until you are a beneficiary. 

 

[trialsrfun]

trialsrfun, on 22 Nov 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

I fail to understand why the two organisations ACU and AMCA are getting such negative comments, without them who would represent us at national level to whoever happens to be having a dig at motorcycle sport, who would keep an eye on changing legislation that could affect our pastime or assist in legal matters when problems arise.

It is easy to complain about this or that maybe justifiably sometimes but both bodies are needed especially when dealing with the likes of defra.

 

If you really want to know what the ACU and AMCA do then why not write or email both organisations and please share with us their reply to you.

[rabie]

in my last post i went for brevity in the hope we'ld all move on / the hope that no one was that cynical / naive ....

 

The ACU aren't bothered if you can ride the bike or not, they just want the money you pay for the licence.

 

if we mean the ACU (ie not SACU) then they get you £10 "affiliation" (ie not a licence, thats £45+ for mx, enduro, etc) plus your levy per ride (£1 something i think without looking). as per my previous post you cna argue whether this is a lot or not a lot of money. you can argue if this sum is spent wisley or not - i've got thought on this issue (another time).

 

But from this simple sum, in basic economic theory, the ACU are heavily invested in you riding your bike because they "make" money each time you ride.

 

I can't comment pn the ACU as it's the SACU up here but all their Trials committee members up here seem to be running about in Ferraris and everytime I phone them they're in the South of France.
 
Amazing how far the licence (Reg card up here) fee goes after administering the sport and running all the championships.

 

You are being sarcastic right? maybe the cold of laying out a trial today has knocked out my sarcasm detector.

 

I'm going to miss a days trials riding to jump in my old banger of a car, to drive 2:15 in ACU HQ for a poxy seminar and then drive back again - i'm getting **** all for it.

Now i could be incredibly generous and postulate that maybe some of the folks who have volunteered for a role are of their sufficient wealthy means and thus drive their own super cars - but i ain't seen one yet. even the folks elected doing a job on ACU's behalf, get given mileage to use their own vehicle - your not going to get rich on that.

 

Now rightly or wrongly part of the ACU's job is to send people to the various european and world events to "babysit" british riders - we can argue later if this is a wise spend of money - but if we've got to do it, then we need to send someone there, if the event is in southern france then so be it. the AMCA send their people to the IMBA events, so i'm not sure what you are getting at. if one person (there are 8 of them on the trials and enduro committee) went to every event (world enduro, world trial, european enduro and european trial) then they might be away a lot - but not all 52 weekends of the year.

 

well my 10p worth. Not a lot i dont see them finding land / putting flags in / getting observers for trials  but they soon have a go at a club or a official if its not done the way they want it !  remember club officials do it for the love of the sport and in there OWN time , I keep hearing  the word cheep ? well if i pay £15 entry and observe your self, I may as well just go and practice, its down to value for money sorry acu you are just not cutting it ! How much money has been raised  from trials ? and found its way back into the sport ? or put it another way how much trials land dose the acu own ? / no land no trials , The acu and trials  have been going a lot of years !

 

Some poor sod has to negotiate the deal with Forestry Commission, the MOD, etc - this is done on a national basis. More generally, anyone who is on anything to do with the ACU is already an organiser with some club somewhere - ie with their own events, etc. There is not (we're not paying enough for there to be) a team of spare bodies waiting to come out and help each club. The ACU, rightly or wrongly, negotiate a national insurance deal, etc - part of that is we (clubs) agree to put events on in a kosher fashion - if i start doing things that we aren't covered for, etc then we are all going to get egg on our faces! The "aim" is to help organisers (who are all volunteers) put events on in a way that keeps everyone's a*** covered.

 

Back to pricing the clubs set the fees, if the club doesn't have observers then that an issue for that club - not something we are going to solve here. If you think the club charging £15 (of which the ACU "get" £1 something and handle the insurance payment) is too dear then fair enough. Sorry we can't please you - some are still charging a tenner, other are over twenty. As to where the money goes, i've already said that it goes on doing various thing - some of which i personally disagree with - send a TdN team, a ladies TdN team, sending this babysitter, training of upcoming "talent", etc, etc.

 

As to land, the ACU doesn't own any. There are clubs out there that do (i'm from one of them) - while we ourselves didn't get help from the ACU, we've borrowed (and paid back) money since for improvements (£25k). If you found some land tomorrow and had a plan of how to pay it back, then i'm sure (we've done it) something can be arranged.

 

Really ? After all its not a licence - it proves nothing other than a registration card.There is no proof of competence or qualification,so why should it cost any more - esp as the AMCA seem to manage happily without it. Trials has always been a low money sport,ramping up costs would spoil it,probably forever.

 

The reason for a licence (or affiliation card) is to prove that you are who you say are and that you are medically fit to ride. Its not for competence on a bike (or i wouldn't have one) - when the rider who is on for example serious heart drug, has a heart attack during the event, who performed the "duty of care" in letting the guy ride. You've seen all the fuss over concussion in american football, rugby, etc. After that lad who had the heart attack in football, there are lots of people asking should all sportsperson take some sort of stress ECG before being aloud to take part in sport.

 

Fundamentally, some people are going to find a tenner for a "licence" to be barrier while other consider it to be a nominal sum. we've alluded to the vastly higher cost in mx, enduro, road race - the eyewateringly high cost abroad ....

 

Not a joke ! ."Nigel"  the man that wanted ACU to buy a  truck, !!!!!   Lets look at the scott  how much problem was caused to the club with land problems from  the national parks ?  dont see the ACU stepping up to sort it out, Left to the club ... Trials clubs buy land then pay the ACU  for the privilege to run a trial on there own land put on by volunteers ,  ACU championship  trial its all down to a club to sort !  SO what dose the ACU do then Nigel ? they can not even make there mind up what set of  rules to use stop/or non stop !  some governing  body !  Remember the ACU  just dont get the £10 registration fee they also get  money from every entry  of every trial run

 

the ACU (used to?) contribute to LARA (http://www.laragb.org/) a motorsport wide resource for land access - in my mind this is the kind of serious lobbying we should "waste" our money on, for the purpose of great "access" and fighting the "antis".

As to costs - see above.

As to ACU championship rounds - fair coment, it is all down to the clubs. we could have people come down in a vehicle, put up banners, etc - but then who is going to pay them and with what money - we've already said "they" take too much money.

As to stop or non stop - its a democracy, and it seams we are as a country, as a sport divided on the issue. I've got my thoughts, you have yours - neither of us if wholey right or wrong - why not be a "broad church" and let people get on with it ?

 

I know at least 2 ACU T&E committee members that mark out trials, observe etc and are the clubs that you say are picked on by the ACU.

 

as to who (clubs) get what championship rounds and by what method - yes it can seam opaque and thus one can draw these sort of inferences that it is not kosher. there are a lot of championships (10 trials & 4 enduro) so that's a lot of events. its one crazy balancing act of competing interests - geographical spread, new organisers, conflicting events, conflicting dates - its clearly no easy job, requiring the wisdom of Solomon that is always going to upset someone. Good luck to the poor sods that sort it out.

 

If you want to go all Machiavellian about it - then get "your" person on the committee - even then i don't think you can write your own meal ticket.

 

insurance - as above - this is by far the major cost to the ACU. we pay for it, but it is the managing of the claims that is time consuming and costly. when we do it wrong, we dig our bigger hole for ourselves - getting all this (boring) paperwork stuff right lowers the claims, and (hopefully) keep the vast insurance bill under control.

 

i'll shut up now and think about all the way to Rugby and back .......

[breagh]

Sorry Rabie, My attempt at humour maybe a bit sarky patently didn't translate South of the border.

 

Must try harder.

    

[trapezeartist]

Nice one, Rabie. A voice of reason and clarity.

[rabie]

Sorry Rabie, My attempt at humour maybe a bit sarky patently didn't translate South of the border.

 

Must try harder.

sorry i'm a southern shandy drinking fairy, not a proper northern monkey - divided by a common language!