ChrisCH Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, ric h said: More detailed information here. https://advrider.com/f/threads/tenaci-wong-tw200s.1194012/page-8 The importer is Sewerat. Thanks for that - interesting read. Once you get past the stereotype of shoddy Chinese tat it looks a good machine. At the price if it were here at that level is probably about the same as European stuff. (I assume that the US$ price would be the base machine then UK VAT) I also think it would get a lot of negativity as it is Chinese if it came to the UK. certainly one to watch for the future though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, ChrisCH said: I think it would be possible to revive a UK brand, but clearly developing a new engine is not cost effective. The obvious thing is to buy in an engine and build a UK frame. There are few engines available, The obvious one being Rotax as they are one of the few manufacturers that sell just engines. I have no idea if the Rotax is suitable for this application? They are sold for go-karts and I would think therefore have a different power delivery to that which a trials bike needs. I'd love to hear if anyone has any expertise in this area. Also I don't know if this meets the current Euro 4 needs? Even with the UK out the EU we will still need to comply with all the European standards if we are to sell into that market. There is a good spread of technology there already with the Italian and Spanish bikes and Montesa Honda benefiting from the new EU-Japan deal. It would be a very tough market to enter, particularly as an outsider. That said the brands like BSA are very well known and could be a selling point, however you would first need to buy the brand from whoever owns it. Basically we are reinventing the wheel and the way to go is to buy the Chinese bike! Euro 4 is irrelevant with Euro 5 coming in to force in less than a year. I wonder how many of the current trials manufacturers will be able to meet it. I did read that it would require 30% lower emissions than Euro 4 but don't know how true that is. Perhaps there will be a way round it for small volume manufacturers. On another point - a few years ago we were all very happy with the weight of bikes that were much heavier than the current crop. I''ve been riding for all but fifty years, in my experience the 4RT is a lightweight bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, 2stroke4stroke said: Euro 4 is irrelevant with Euro 5 coming in to force in less than a year. I wonder how many of the current trials manufacturers will be able to meet it. I did read that it would require 30% lower emissions than Euro 4 but don't know how true that is. Perhaps there will be a way round it for small volume manufacturers. On another point - a few years ago we were all very happy with the weight of bikes that were much heavier than the current crop. I''ve been riding for all but fifty years, in my experience the 4RT is a lightweight bike. Point 1 - That may be why Gasgas have been chasing electrification, can't fail emissions if there aren't any! Point 2 - true, but that just means that for new riders starting now learning is easier. When I was 11 my first bike was a '78 KE100 which I could barely lift after dropping (my Dad literally told me what the controls were and then left me to get on with it), a modern trials bike would have been much easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 I would feel better about putting an 11 yr old on a 78 KE100 than putting one on a modern day trials bike... a little more weight and a little less power isn't the worse thing for a beginner … it was tough to stall those old bikes (you could slam on the brakes and they would just keep riding along - hahahah) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 2stroke4stroke said: Euro 4 is irrelevant with Euro 5 coming in to force in less than a year. I wonder how many of the current trials manufacturers will be able to meet it. I did read that it would require 30% lower emissions than Euro 4 but don't know how true that is. Perhaps there will be a way round it for small volume manufacturers... I am new to the sport and was amazed that the bikes do not need type approval. Must be the only road vehicle that is exempt? I can see that Euro 5 would be a big problem. Road bikes have long abandoned 2 stroke to meet all the standards. Do you know if the emission standards are a regulation for competitions or just for road use? Most bike are off road only so it might not be a major issue, but I wondered if the FIM or similar require certain standards? I was going to try some green lanes with mine but in the end have found it better to use a (off road) practice ground so never got round to a VED (I MOT'd it and it is insured with my road bike) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, michael_t said: I would feel better about putting an 11 yr old on a 78 KE100 than putting one on a modern day trials bike... a little more weight and a little less power isn't the worse thing for a beginner … it was tough to stall those old bikes (you could slam on the brakes and they would just keep riding along - hahahah) I would not - the KE100 was a darn sight quicker than a modern 80 or even 125 trials bike. Also, with the likelihood of some whiskey throttle having better brakes can only be a help. And to a child 65Kg is still plenty heavy enough to stay planted, just easier to get out of problems when you're stuck. If you want to encourage new people into an activity why would you want to make it harder for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Well you have me there I have tried a new Beta 80 and it really is a brilliant little bike and would be great for a youth starting out ... but still don't think I would be complaining about learning to ride on a KE100 or were you bragging? - sorry but can be bit hard to tell sometimes. My point is that a few extra pounds (like 10 or 15) and a few less HP really should not hinder anybody starting out. I would suggest it is way better than what we see very often here in NA that people feel better to get the "best" so buy a 300cc factory edition... get tossed around and then decide trials isn't "fun". From what I have seen of this bike it certainly seems it could be a lot of "fun" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, turbofurball said: ..If you want to encourage new people into an activity why would you want to make it harder for them? I have really enjoyed finding large number of youngsters that are keen on trials. It's really great to see kids doing something that encourages responsibility and gives them confidence. Most seem to start out with the new electric Oset bikes. I wish they had been around when I was a nipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 First demo ride went well - apparently the fellow bought it after the demo :). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 16 hours ago, michael_t said: My point is that a few extra pounds (like 10 or 15) and a few less HP really should not hinder anybody starting out. Anyone who is new to the sport is going to be falling off and getting stuck lots, every extra kilo you have to drag out of a muddy pit that you misjudged makes it harder - especially when you're pulling the bike up for the 20th time. Now multiply that effect for a youngster who isn't as strong as you! (also, I was neither complaining nor bragging, I was making an observation that the bike I learned on was harder work with than a modern trials machine) 16 hours ago, ChrisCH said: Most seem to start out with the new electric Oset bikes. I wish they had been around when I was a nipper. Absolutely, they're fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I don't think anybody is suggesting this as a replacement for an Oset to start kids on or really promoting it as a "youth" bike... sorry if I offended you by saying a KE100 wouldn't be the worse bike to start out on... I was really just saying that if your dad had put you on a modern 250 or 300 cc bike (wasn't really thinking about the smaller ones at the time as they are very rare here) you would have had a whole lot of different difficulties but maybe not... It really depends on what sort of 11yr old you were - everybody is different - different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Nobody would put a young person on a 250+, you can't ride anything over a 125 in competitions until 16 ... but regardless of age a 125 is plenty for all but the largest adult beginners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 People can ride whatever size bike they like here in Canada... I would guess that there are probably less than a dozen trials bikes in the whole country less than 175 cc. Just a very different mentality on this side of the Atlantic. I do agree with you that a 125 is plenty for most people but nobody ever listens to me ?. I really think this TW200 has enough power and is light enough for any adult starting out but that is just my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oni nou Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) After watching that bike in the video it is obviously useless and very heavy...the traction is useless....its probably caused by those hard plasticky nylon CST tyres it has fitted.....no wonder it could not get up those banks .....being that the conditions were dry and there was a lot of grip imagine how useless it would be if the ground was wet or there was a heavy frost ....beginners and novices would have a problem with the low power out put of that motor and its massive weight .......it seems unusual that Canada has a different second hand market as regards trials motorcycles I thought it would have been exactly the same as the UK ....isn't the rest of the world the same as the UK. Edited January 10, 2019 by oni nou 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 ahhh yes... now I remember why people outside the UK hesitate to post here. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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