125 National Championship

[alan bechard]

So by that reasoning NSAGM, and another one of my absurd observations, somewhere in the late 70's to very early 80's the Trials scene in the US must have taken off and grown larger.

Hmmmm, I was riding at the time and just do not seem to remember that being the case.

[mich lin]

I've got to come clean nsaqam, I know exactly who Beckman is and the Spice girls!

I really loved the movie "Bend em like Beckman" a really great peice of filmwork. To be honest, We might be some of the few Yanks who know who he is! Remember we run a world championship baseball and football series that nobody else competes in but Americans. We constantly get flak from the Europeans on this board about those American world champions.

Let me say it's been refreshing having you come on board here! You are a clear thinker, write well and see the BIG picture. I'd like to enlist you in rewriting the NATC proposal to be presented at next years national meeting like you offered to do.

If we can get the proposed revisions of the US Pro class, Women's US championship passed and bring in a 125cc US title. Then we will definetly be on the road to another American world champion other than in US football or baseball.

Let me also add, Americans in the world championship would also position the sport to outside corperate sponsorship. Outside sponsorship will simply never happen with a sport that relys on elder riders that don't appeal to the video game buyer.

Edited April 18, 2006 by Mich Lin

[nsaqam]

Alan, that's a valid observation but the landscape today bears no resemblance to that which existed in the '70s and '80s with respect to media exposure, advertising, and most importantly, money.

[mich lin]

Alan? Again you simply don't know what your talking about! I was there, I don't remember you. This is another time you make me mad, Alan!

The US championship today as nsaqam has pointed out has 5 riders contesting the whole series. How can you package and sell a series with 5 riders?

We have 3 ladies, one American and two Canadians that's 8 riders if you add the girls into the mix. 8 riders out of 280 million people in the USA championship. Wow impressive! Hey, 2/3s of the US ladies championship entry comes from outside the 280 million American population. Wow, that's a great turnout!

In the 70s the US championship series had more riders than today's series with its combined entry of Pro, women's championship and 15 plus age classes it needs to fill an entry. The NATC has to dip way down into the intermediate ranks of club riders to fill the entry today. We had two classes then, Pro and sportsmen with a biggerr turnout than today, later the over 35 class was added, then another and another and another.

In the 70s the bulk of the entry was the Pro class, with factory teams from Honda, Yamaha, Bultaco, Montesa, OSSA and factory support riders from Suzuki and Kawasaki. We also had some smaller brands like Sarecen, GRM, Cotton, TMI and Fantic.

A lot of US riders made their living riding only trials! These same American Pro riders also scored a ton of world championship points. Today our US champion won't even enter the US world round for the US spectators to cheer for him.

[nsaqam]

Lane, I would be honored to help in any way I can with the NATC proposal! Although I'm not an English teacher or an academician I do take pride in the English language and try to do it justice whenever I write.

Anytime you want to send me a draft of your proposal I'd immediately start working on it. I would like to help this sport grow and am willing to do anything in my capacity to make it so.

Thanks for the kind words. I look forward to starting on that proposal.

Please PM or email me.

umpierre1@hotmail.com

[mich lin]

Let me mention again, it was the Dr Wagner plan to transform the US championship into events catering to elder riders, not Pro riders. Which is OK but difficult or impossible to sell to outside corperate sponsors.

He did an amazing job of reaching his goals of no professional riders in the USA. Keeping the NATC serries fun for the sportsmen riders. Plus keep the series alive.

The NATC of the late 70s and early 80s wanted a hidden small sport, that would be fun for themselves to ride. They reached their goals with amazing success, it's simply not marketable.

The fall out from the Dr Wagner plan is that in todays unforseeable video game and promotional sports market. The NATC national series catering to elder riders and no superstars will not sell to the public.

Now the question is simply, is it time to change?

[alan bechard]

Gee Lane, Let me get my timeline correct, when did you drop out of trials?

And you dropped out why?

Wouldn't that be about the same time that we had a US World Champ? And so in your memory Trials was prospering. So you are saying that when Trials was really prospering in the US, you dropped out to be a carpenter because you could not make money in Trials? Somehow Lane you just leave me dazed and confused.

Sorry I make you mad Lane, I just reject your version of reality.

And I just gotta know.

What line will you guys propose that the 125 class (s?) ride?

[nsaqam]

Yes it is time for a change Lane! Let's get this proposal revised and get those who are to present it to the NATC on board and enthusiastic about it. It would make no sense to have the presenter only half-heartedly pitching this to the Board. We need fire and brimstone, and the ability to intelligently counter any concerns or misgivings concerning the plan. Andy's signature line about war and dishonor always strikes me as a masterful bit of oratory by a master of the craft, Winston Churchill. We need the presenter to possess some of those oratorial gifts, because then the possibility exists to sway some boardmembers who may be on the fence. I would hope that the merits of the proposal would be enough to get it passed but a truly knowledgeable presenter couldn't hurt.

Let's get it done and get the presenter briefed ASAP.

[nsaqam]

I don't know the answer to your question about what line to use but rest assured that the proposal will contain that information. Wait for the proposal and find out.

Also, if you believe that a 125 class would be detrimental to the NATC then of course you have the right to submit your own proposal explaining your concerns. I look forward to reading it if you choose to write it.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Ishy you cynical ol' git you    HA-HA

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My point was more...after winning 11 world championship titles, how has the sport progressed in the UK.

1982 Bainbridge world round 79 riders one class, all on the same line rode the event.

1983 Bainbridge world round 70 riders

1986 Pateleybridge world round 82 riders

2005 Hawkstone park 17 riders.

Has world championship participation increased ? what do you think ?

If club participation had lost the same % of riders over the past 23 years do you think there would even be trials bikes built ?

I'll go look what the US world rounds produced for entries after they had the world champion in 79, thease are fact!! not what might, could or isn't.

[alan bechard]

I don't know the answer to your question about what line to use but rest assured that the proposal will contain that information. Wait for the proposal and find out.

Also, if you believe that a 125 class would be detrimental to the NATC then of course you have the right to submit your own proposal explaining your concerns. I look forward to reading it if you choose to write it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess this is about it in a nutshell NSAGAM, It is actually not that I am against a 125 class.

You seem to think that if I do not agree with you, then I am against you.

I do not think that the 125 class will help to accomplish the goals that you are stating.

I do not believe that the general populace of the NATC, and probably more specificly the promotors, are going to buy into it.

Why not just have Lane present it himself? Last year I believe he had the opportunity as a "diplomat" I believe it was referred to, to attend the NATC meeting and he chose not too.

I would suggest, that you speak with your NATC rep, which I am guessing is Steve Ahlers, and get his view on the plan, before spending a great amount of time on it.

I believe, and heck, it would not hurt my feeling's if I was wrong, that you will recieve a response very much (if not exactly) like what Ishy gave you before, and that was, if you want to see it happen, go make it happen, and come back to us when you have proven it to be a success.

Again, you feel like I am against you, but you may find after spending some time out riding with these folks, and getting to know them, that maybe I am trying to share some insight to save you some hassell.

Then again, I think you and Lane should charge up and make it right and I will applaud your success and ride along on your coattails when Trials becomes the next big sport.

And yes, I speak to the NATC reps for the clubs that I belong too quite regularly, as a matter of fact I make it a point to seek out the NATC reps from other clubs, and folks such as importers, Pro Riders, Ambassador's, or diplomats that I believe will attend the NATC meeting and voice my opinion directly to them. This I believe is how positive change is effected within the NATC. (take that for what it is worth) The ranting's on this bulletin board are considered pretty much just that. Are they doing what I would like? No. Do they do everything that I think they should for Trials. No, but then I have to temper that with the fact that they are just like me, and they are doing everything that they can, Every one of them is putting far more into the sport then I, so I can see their logic when they say if you want to see it done, hop too it. And they are not saying write a proposal.

I wish you the best of luck with your proposal.

[nsaqam]

So ishy, like I said to Alan just a few posts up, the whole landscape is different these days. There can be no possible comparisons drawn between the media exposure available in '79 to that available today. Todays media is bigger by several orders of magnitude.

That's not debatable, that's fact. Given this fact, are you saying that a US WTC Champion in '06 would generate no exposure for the sport? Are you saying that the motorcycle media at the very least would not give trials more attention and airtime? Are you saying that our youth would not aspire to be like our US World Champ who they've read about in Dirt Rider mag?

On top of that, would not a NATC that focused on our youth and tailored its message toward todays youth not bring in more of them than the present focus?

MX in '79 didn't generate anywhere near the money and exposure they do in '06, why cannot it be the same for trials. I think it can with a renewed and retooled focus towards excellence and achievement at the highest level.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Well worth the read, all the past results

http://www.trialonline.org/CHARLY/MONDE/MO...DE_ARCHIVES.htm

When I mentioned holding a 125 championship, I ment it, you came back with obsured, how could you do it without the backing of the AMA.

Pheraps you could fill me in on what event backing the AMA provide

I know what they provide!! I have been there.

Good luck with your proposal, and thanks for all the fish.

[nsaqam]

I'm sure I will speak to Steve about the plan but regardless of what he thinks, I'm still convinced that the plan has merit and will still do whatever I can to make it happen. I'm no politician, I don't want or need polls and focus groups, if I think strongly about something I do my best to advance my point of view.

As far as complaining on these forums, you're correct, it achieves little, but being in on this conversation may allow me to work with others of like mind to do what we see as right vis a vis this sport.

As to your suggestion that Lane present the proposal himself, I'm not opposed to that in the slightest and I'm sure he would be the first option but if HE feels that for whatever reason he would not be the best option then we need to find the best person for the job and get them on board.

Finally Alan, if getting our youth to develop their skills through a system that parallels the system used in the rest of the trials world isn't the answer, what is? How would you propose we develop our future WTC champs? Or is a WTC champ not a worthy or attainable goal? If a WTC champ would not grow the sport in the US, how would you propose we grow the sport? Or is growth not a worthy or attainable goal?

Stagnant growth and impoverished importers may be the best that can be hoped for. I hope not!

[atomant]

My point was more...after winning 11 world championship titles, how has the sport progressed in the UK.

1982 Bainbridge world round 79 riders one class, all on the same line rode the event.

1983 Bainbridge world round 70 riders

1986 Pateleybridge world round 82 riders

2005 Hawkstone park 17 riders.

Has world championship participation increased ? what do you think ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At Pateley bridge, how many of the riders had a serious chance of being able to win??? maybe the participation hasnt increased, but what has is the quality and because of that, theres less people of the calibre of Doug & Co. who can hack it.

The amount of Youth riders coming through is booming though in the UK!

At hawkstone, spectator levels were very healthy I remember