sting32 Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Lane, Pardon me... I was pulling you off the soapbox with that one (off track), but only because I fell in love with the idea of "how to bust the cheater" if this 125 thing ever got adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Brought back to the front for NSAGM to read, and others interested in what was discussed about the 125 proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Thank you Alan, it is very informative. I'll respond after I get my daughter from school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 After rereading this thread I still have to say that the proposal that Lane made is still sound. It has been said in the Lance thread that the 125's teach riders how to ride their bike more efficiently, using traction and other basic techniques that may be masked by using a more powerful machine. Mr. Lampkin said as much. Quite frankly I see no downside to the 125cc proposal. I guess that I don't understand why there isn't already displacement based classes in trials like there is in nearly every other form of motorcycle racing? Why is that guys? Once again thank you Alan for bringing this thread back up, I enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 As to the cheating thing, although I feel it wouldn't happen, the stroke of a 2 stroke trials bike is as easy to check as removing a spark plug and measuring it with a rod or dial indicator. This wouldn't eliminate overbores but the increase in displacement due solely to an overbore with no stroke modifications is small. I believe 144cc is the max practical limit. Make 144cc the max displacement for the class. If you wanted to limit the displacement to 125cc just pull the head and measure if suspected. Total cost to do that to a 2 stroke is 2 o-rings and some coolant, max $50! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 The only person that I have ever heard concerned about cheating on displacement is Lane. Take Lane's (as well as my for that matter) statements that talk about they said, Everybody feels, all the riders think, with a huge grain of salt. Back again to the base question who is going to ride it? We already have too many classes in my opinion, and I think if you read through Lane's prior posts you will find that he has railed against having so many classes as well. This proposal would add another class to the mix. Add to that, and why I said name, names, is that the very people that Lane say's he is trying to "help" would not ride this class as he proposed it. Anyway, one other very important point to bring forward. This proposal was brought forward and presented to the group at the NATC meeting. To the people that took time out, and made it a priority to be at that meeting, with the goal of promoting trials. The proposal was presented, evaluated and rejected. Does it have merit on some points? Certainly, but the doer's, the promoters, the guys that spend their time actually doing this stuff and making it happen determined that this was not the best course for American Trials at this point. At that point, most folks would let it go, or ask for input from that group as to what could be improved or what compromise could be made, but that is not the Lane Leavitt style. He will bang that drum repeatedly how HE is the only one that knows how to save the wretched world of American Trials and if we would just all hold him up and Hail Lane we would be on the path of rightousness and proceed forward to the holy grail of having an American World Champion in Trials. The guys that made that decision are back to work, doing their best to promote trials in the US and out there right now as we speak working with kids, setting sections and preparing for this weekends events. The scary part for me, is that I agree with Lane on many points. His execution and his demeanor towards folks though and his inability to answer direct questions, coupled with his desire to promote himself above all else, makes several people out there just shut down when his name even comes up in the conversation. Trials riders are rather resistant to change I think you will find. I believe you will also find that Trials riders as a group, spend far less money then riders of other motorsports disciplines. I think it is a wonderful group of folks, but to try and bring about rapid, radical change to the US trials community will be met with a bit less than success in my opinion. Most trials riders that I know respect a demonstration of hard work, perserverance and a track record of hanging in there and showing that you are actively Working to achieve the ends you want to see. If you want to see the 125 class adopted, start speaking to the NATC rep for your club and asking him to bring it forward at the meeting this October. What area are you from by the way? Which club are you riding with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 My daughter and I saw our first ever trials event when the WTC came to Duluth in 2004, We were impressed! But I was a SLOW single track rider on a nice KTM 250Exc. I rode for fun and competed in one enduro that I was very happy to finish in the middle of my class. When I found out the WTC was coming back to Duluth in 2005 I found out who the trialsmaster was (Steve Ahlers) and volunteered my services to help in any way that was needed. He was glad to have me help. I helped him and the rest of the guys there for several weekends setting sections up and generally just asking questions. We both went to the '05 WTC and I knew I wanted to try trials and so did my girl. I bought her a GG TXT50 last Summer but some lowlife stole it in November. I traded my KTM for a '99 GG TXT321 a couple of months ago and I took my first ride on a trials bike about a month ago. I am an absolute novice in this sport but I'm a voracious reader and have tried to learn all I could about it. Trialscomp, Trialssport, Ryan Young DVDs, forums, all the BA DVDs, Mark Manniko DVDs, anything and everything that I can. I've still never ridden a section or even ridden with another person for that matter. I will be joining the UMTA this Spring and would like to attempt some competitions as well. I have to get my girl a new bike soon too so we can learn together. So, I'm an ABSOLUTE nobody in this sport with no previous experience but with a strong desire to learn. I have learned alot thanks to all the good folks out there. Now I need to learn to ride and that will be much more difficult! It should be alot more fun though! If my complete lack of experience invalidates my thoughts, questions or comments I'm sorry and I'll shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric23 Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 To answer a question posed here. At Holbrook last weekend, Will rode the expert lines, Cody and Patrick rode Pro. From my observations, all three would hardly be challenged by the sportsman line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 NSAGM, No, your lack of experience does absolutely not negate your input. You have shown, and demonstrated by going out and working with the Duluth crew that you are exactly the type of person that is needed in the Trials community. Just be aware, that not all the people that talk the most on these boards do the same. Are you coming to the WR in TTC? Look me up please. (Cabin 5) I cannot encourage you enough to make the effort to come down to the Youth Nationals (and maybe more importantly in my opinion) the Youth Camp that preceeds the Youth Nationals, with your daughter this summer. I think you will find that you have an excellent time, you will make a lot of shared memories together, and both of your riding skills will improve greatly. Sincerly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulsher Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 On one point, apparantly the items voted on and approved by the NATC at the meeting can be changed by some of the members after the fact without the touted active negotiations. Also adding the displacement class shouldn't be a big deal if it will in fact broaden and improve the quality of the riders. What is so hard to understand about that concept ---it obviously has merit with the success overseas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 Alan, you claim that I refuse to answer questions, why don't you ask then of me point blank insted of always going into a long tyrate that makes it difficult for me to follow your point. You also constantly misrepresent my positions! Thankyou for agreeing with me on some points, what are they exactly. Lastly, in an ideal world, I believe that all the classes that the NATC has are great. I would not get rid of any them BUT if we had the entries, I'd have them ride another day or venue, maybe even have a seperate Pro and sportsmen series altogether like MX has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2006 (edited) I'm not worried about people cheating, Alan! nsaqam is right on the money on how to handle any problems with displacement. Cheating was one of the resistence points brought up at the NATC meeting against the 125cc national championship proposal. Another was that Honda/Montesa does not build a 125cc bike which keeps Montesa out of that championship, which some thought was unfair to eliminate a brand from a US title. Edited April 8, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Lane , F.Y.I. Ron Commo III Rode the Expert Class on a 125 in the first four rounds .. he is a bit over his head but put some brilliant rides in on some very big sections. His results Not what he was hoping for .. But He did learn alot about his 125 and was he hindered by the power of a 125 ? yep... But He still attacked every section Full Bore. I am an advocate of a 125 expert class to prepare our kids , and to build there technique..!! Your proposal was shot down because It had too many holes. what ifs, etc...Changing the format is not necessary !!! adding the class would be cool !! For Now we are happy to be shooting the 125 up some 8' walls like arizona had and the consistency and results are on the way soon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Congrats Ron, and hats off to being out there making it work. I am assuming Ronnie will be out there Sat and Sun at the TTC events? It will be exciting too see I am sure. See you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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