nigel dabster Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Perhaps Alan you should reserve judgement on the 125 clas for under 18's until you have seen what thry do at the TTC this year? Having too many classes is easily sorted just take the british model on board, age and increase in cc go hand in hand, phase these changes in and hey presto you yanks fall into line with the rest of the world and then you have no reason not to challenge for wtc honours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinell Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The only point I would like to add is that I am always impressed when I see the likes of Wigg and Co. wringing every last ounce of power out of the 125's before launching up summat... I took some video of the BDMC Skyrakes trial which is on TC somewhere. Section 2 (I think) shows the top lads on their 250's and Wiggy on his 125 riding the same line. The 125 riders are forced to use technique to compensate for the lack of cc's. Can anyone find the link? I can't be a***d looking for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city trials Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 He still attacked every section Full Bore. I am an advocate of a 125 expert class to prepare our kids , and to build there technique..! Here is a photo of Ron winding the tar out of the 125 on a 7 foot rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Ron has is lad on a 125, because he probably thinks that is the best tool for him to learn on. I am a fan of the 125 and have ridden at high elevation in Colorado nationals, the bike managed to lug me around fine. I had a valid attempt at every section riding a 125 in the SSDT, results for the week on a par with when I rode larger capacity machines, I weigh 175lb, most young lads riding 125 will be closer to 100lb. The newer 125's perform better than those of a few years ago. Does it need to be A compulsory class ? I don't buy the 125 is a disadvantage at the level in question, when there are young lads in the world who have the capability to win the top class in the US series on a 125. Those that want to compete in world 125 chmpionships and beyond, can. I agree with Al on this one, why make it compulsory for kids who just want to ride for the sport. At best in the US it would be another class of 3 or 4 riders, would the ACU or FIM of introduced the rule if that was the case in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Huge congrats to RC3 on his determination and skill! Keep that 125 rockin' and rollin'. Good Luck at the remaining rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Only 5 Pro riders contested the whole series in '05 but nobody wants to get rid of them or what they bring to the sport. Nigel's thought that we should adopt the British model of age=displacement has merit but then you know that I support a 125 Nat'l Championship and am aware of the obstacles and arguments against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 How many times have we talked about this? What was the result of those discussions? Where is this discussion going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city trials Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Where is this discussion going? What do you want to talk about, Keith's banana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 What do you want to talk about, Keith's banana? Yep We've talked about this in quite a few other threads, its gotten no where. But I just figured I'd say that before peacin out of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 The proposal for a US 125cc championship did not include youth riders limited to only 125cc bikes, we would still have the 2 high school classes for riders on full size machines. It also did not put an age limit on 125cc riders, anyone could ride any size bike they wished in the NATC series. Including an adult on a 125cc machine! One thought, riders on 125cc machines could figure into both the high school class of their choice AND the 125cc national championship. Now that would be interesting and benifit the competition for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Perhaps Alan you should reserve judgement on the 125 clas for under 18's until you have seen what thry do at the TTC this year?Having too many classes is easily sorted just take the british model on board, age and increase in cc go hand in hand, phase these changes in and hey presto you yanks fall into line with the rest of the world and then you have no reason not to challenge for wtc honours. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Nigel, not sure if I am misreading your comment, or you mine. I have no problem with the abilities of the 125's. I have no doubt that a great rider on a 125 is able to do anything. My problem is with adding classes, and where do we stop. I am a firm believer in the slippery slope. Lane Said, he wanted to see the 125 class ride the sportsman line. OK, now, somewhere in these threads, I saw Ron (a very active and participating member of the NATC) say he would like to see it in the Expert Line. Now say Dean improves, and I want to see a 125 line in the Expert Support line. And of course Ronnie III has progressed at that point and wants to see a 125 class for the "pro" line. How exactly is any of that going to help these guys progress to the World Rounds? The folks that believe that riding a 125 will help them progress to the World Arena, are going to do just that in the class structure we have. (I have not spoken directly to Ron about it, but I would surmise that as he is riding a 125 in the Expert class that he believes that is the proper way to get there) Nigel, how many different "classes" or 125's (maybe I mean lines or degrees of difficulty for different words) do you guys run. And just to confuse matters. We going to let the 250 4 strokes compete on the 125 line if we are going to be emulating the MX crowd by having displacemtent classes? (just thought I would throw that in to stir the pot a bit, Andy where is that little fishing dude emoticon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Alan, on your last point about 250 4 strokes competing in the 125 class. I would say emphatically NO!!!! The huge displacement advantage given to 4 strokes in MX has been a huge mistake IMO. It increased costs dramatically, radically increased noise complaints, and relegated a simple and inexpensive engine that could be maintained by the rider to the scrap heap. Nothing IMO would be worse for the sport than giving a displacement advantage to the 4 stroke! If the 4 stroke can't compete on its merits (it has a few) then it shouldn't compete. How's that for a response to your fishing expedition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Alan, on your last point about 250 4 strokes competing in the 125 class. I would say emphatically NO!!!! The huge displacement advantage given to 4 strokes in MX has been a huge mistake IMO. It increased costs dramatically, radically increased noise complaints, and relegated a simple and inexpensive engine that could be maintained by the rider to the scrap heap. Nothing IMO would be worse for the sport than giving a displacement advantage to the 4 stroke! If the 4 stroke can't compete on its merits (it has a few) then it shouldn't compete. How's that for a response to your fishing expedition? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahhhhh, but therein lies the problem, how can you look at me and say we need to follow the MX example and have a 125 class (I will go find your post referencing that if you wish) if we are not going to follow along and do as the MX guys do and allow a 250, 4 stroke to compete in that class. Couldn't your last line also apply to the skill improvement that is touted for riding a 125 as one of the other justifications for the class? Something along the lines of "If the (sub 125's) can't compete on its merits (it has a few) then it shouln't compete." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Nigel, swithcing gears which I'm famous for, what are the youth classes in GB? How does the ages break down in A B C and the rest? I don't think many people understand how your youth nationals work. I know I don't! Alan, my proposal to the NATC dropped two classes not added, thought I answered that question! Also the proposal had harder sections than now because of the finals. Yet allowed a larger field of a wider cross section of rider ability because of using the sportsmen sections for the qualifing event. Then only the best 5 125cc riders moved to the world class sections. Hope that clears up my proposal. Any other questons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Alen, I can easily answer you 250cc four stroke question running against the 125cc 2 strokes like US MX. If they allow a 250cc four stroke at the 125cc world trials championship, fine let them in. But they don't so those 250cc four stroke riders would contest the US High School class! If the FIM allows the 250cc fours strokes into the 125cc world championship. Then they should be allowed but not until they do. Our goal should be to comply with the rest of the world. What they do, we need to do, except we should strive to keep the very successful age group championships. With the goal of someday having enough pro class/125cc champ entries to split the sportsmen off from the US national championship. So that their series is seperate from the Pro/125cc US championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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