nsaqam Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Alan, although I believe that displacement classes may be a good idea that doesn't mean we need to emulate everything about MX! Especially if what MX does is a horrible mistake! Using your logic, I'm advocating that trials would line all the competitors up behind a gate and they'd race to the first section! Patently ridiculous! Why can't you, for the betterment of the sport you love and support, see that others may have legitimate ideas and thoughts for this sport as well. Not me, I'm a newbie, what I say can carry no possible weight, but others who have a longer history in this sport. You seem to look for absurd ways to discredit these ideas by looking for the worst possible scenario rather than a rational examination of any possible merits of these ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Lane, I hope the FIM does not allow 250 4 strokes in the 125 class. It would be a horrible mistake for the reasons I stated elsewhere. They do not at present, lets hope it stays that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Alan, although I believe that displacement classes may be a good idea that doesn't mean we need to emulate everything about MX! Especially if what MX does is a horrible mistake! Using your logic, I'm advocating that trials would line all the competitors up behind a gate and they'd race to the first section! Patently ridiculous! Why can't you, for the betterment of the sport you love and support, see that others may have legitimate ideas and thoughts for this sport as well. Not me, I'm a newbie, what I say can carry no possible weight, but others who have a longer history in this sport. You seem to look for absurd ways to discredit these ideas by looking for the worst possible scenario rather than a rational examination of any possible merits of these ideas. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NSAGM while you say I look for absurd ways to discredit the idea. I promise you (and only time will prove me right or wrong) that if there is a 125 class, there will be someone that proposes we need to let the 4 strokes compete in it at 250cc's of displacement. And if Lane's child was on a Montesa (that is an inside joke that would require years of reading these bulletin boards but there are many on here spitting coffee on their keyboards at the moment.) He would be the one leading the charge. The 250, 4 riding in the 125 is exactly on point in my opinion, you suggested we emulate the class structure of MX, and that is how it is done. Oh, by the way, if you have a bobcat you must be cool, what do you do with it, what model you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Just a small 751 but it's pretty clean! I got an extendo-boom and pallet forks for it too along with the standard bucket of course. Need one of those cool hydraulic post hole diggers though. As for the displacement thing, in the enduro world there is no advantage given to 4 strokes. 250 against 250 be they 2 or 4 stroke. This is as it should be IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 To answer your question Alan, if I had my choice of ANY factory team to ride and compete with for my kid. It would be HRC Honda/Montesa! I feel that they are a great team and support their riders very well. True Martin Belair is mad at me, maybe for good reason, maybe not but he does not have a team in the USA anyway and I doubt if he ever will. If the FIM allows 250s 4ts to compete in the 125 class, there is little doubt that the HRC/Montesa would be the best bike in the class and that's the bike we would ride even without US importer support. The facts are that today and in the forseeable future the FIM will not allow 250cc 4T machines into the 125cc world championship. The whole purpose of a 125cc national championship is to comply with world standards. To bring 250cc 4Ts into a US 125cc national championship without the FIM doing it first is going right back in the wrong direction we came from. It's simple, no 4T 250cc bikes in the world or US 125cc championship! If they do, we will be the first to line up and buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Keep up lane the Scorpa 250 4t is out aswell this week so until you've seen it in the sections don't be hasty to say its better than or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Good point Nigel, it's good to see Yamaha or at least a Yamaha motor back into trials. As a team though I still like what I see at HRC/Montesa. Say Nigel, would you be so kind as to explain the UK youth classes for us and how they work. What ages and skill levels do they include? I konw I'm totally ignorant of how it done in your fine country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 And I am adding to Lanes post... Did I just say that? Pointed question Does the UK and the Spanish youth (I guess I mean youth, I may mean 125) classes work the same way? And let me throw this ringer in the ring as well. Where the 125 and smaller displacement classes implemented in Europe to improve their riders, or where they implemented to comply with vehicle licensing and Insurance regulations. (Or if neither, what reason were they implemented.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Age limits for this year with bike allowed:- D Class born between 1/1/97 and 31/12/00 - 50 mono 80 t/s C Class born between 1/1/94 and 31/12/96 - 80 / 125 run as 2 classes at national level 80 only next year B Class born between 1/1/91 and 31/12/93 - 125 A Class born between 1/1/89 and 31/12/90 - 125 / 250 run as 2 classes at national level 125 only next year This is the last year of changes. As far as I know the Spanish system is the same Difficult to say how good the kids are but I'd have thought Wiggy would stand a good chance of beating anyone currently riding in America, adult or youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Perce, In the D-class I assume the 50 mono means the 50 automatics but, what does the t/s stand for with the 80's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Correct me if I'm wrong but I think mono means single shock and t/s means twin shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I believe (as nsagm says) that T/S is twinshock. They have a substantial number of folks over there in the UK I believe that still have the TY80's. I believe they imported them there for a substantially longer time, and just flat out have more, and as you cannot kill those things, there are still a lot of them out there competing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I should have known Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 (edited) Sorry but this was a loaded question guys. I was hoping to lead into this! We should also consider adopting the Spanish and UK age classes and displacement fot the US youth nationals, besides simply adding a 125cc national championship. That is if we want to give US youngsters the best possible shot at a world title. The A, B, C, D class is much simpler, mixes up the kids better and in my opinion makes for better riders. I believe that Spanish and UK results may tend to support my view of a better way to run the US youth national foremat. The US ladies championship would also work well here. The best young men are tough competition for our best Women! An example being, I doubt that either of the Williams sisters could beat young schoolboy Smage. It would create some interesting press and spectator interest to face off North America's women with the best young up and coming male riders. This competiton between them would push both groups, creating a win/win situation of a higher level of competition. Moving the girls to the youth nationals would also allow them to ride whatever men's class they wanted at the NATC nationals, again pushing them to be better than they are now. Edited April 13, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Yep Lane,,, Don't want to misquote you here but did you say you were working with Mr. Bill on making the left coast nationals go? Sounds like you could implement it there, and let us know how it works out. So you are not going to let kids that are of that age ride a bike outside those requirements? I bet that will shoot your attendance way up. Or are you going to let a child that has a bike outside those requirements ride as exhibition only and not fall into the scoring? Perce, (or other UK riders knowledgable for that matter) what do you do with the younger riders? Do you let them ride in the bottom class? (say a 5 year old) How about if you have a particularly talented larger child that is riding a bigger machine then what your formulae allows, is he refused entry? allowed to ride a higher class? allowed to ride his class on a exhibition ride only (no points?) Does this ever come up for you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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