125 National Championship

[sirhc]

At the west youth nationals I think this year Mr.Bill is not even doing the age thing..Just straight up classes novice thru advanced like a regular trial just for kids.This is to get more kids to come,like older ones that can't do the harder lines.I hope it gets attendance up but, I don't agree with it.I will be helping him any way I can though

So at our own Y.N. could a five year old ride the six year old class?

If my kid was a month younger he only would have been 5 at the start of the year.Could he have rode?I don't think that month would have made a diffrance in his riding.

As for there classes over there, now I know why Beta makes that big 50

[nigel dabster]

It isn't an issue really as there has always been the four youth classes for a very long time, 20 years????

What has changed (in Britain) and it was/is being phased in /out is the limit of youth riders to 125cc, and as Perce clearly states above 250cc is allowed for the very lasy time this year for over 15 year olds in the A class.

However this class is poorly supported and the riders not as proficient as the 125cc riders in fact at the first 2 nationals the first 3 finishers were all ahead on less marks on 125cc. I believe that all these riders have world and european ambitions and as such will be restricted to 125cc until 18 by UEM and FIM rules.

The idea of changing at a slow rate (acu trying to be helpful) , much slower than the Spanish or French I think has hindered one or two riders, in fact Lee Sampson Sherco had a 250 for a while but has chosen to stick pretty much exclusively this year on a 125cc so he feels it helps his riding at wtc and euro level as switching between 125 and 250 is not the best way to getting the best from a 125cc rider and machine.

I don't for a minute presume to begin to understand the American system but one thing is for sure if you look at what a good lad (fair few british to choose from) on a 125 can do at sequatchie I think you will be amazed.Then add a few years experince and then let him tackle the bigger stuff on a bigger bike and surely logic tells you that if you are raga and have to wring the neck on a 300cc factory machine to get up the really big WTC section stuff then surely the ground work of doing the same with a 125cc at 16/17/18 will help rather than hinder?

I do not subscribe to the theory that a bigger bike that makes a section easier is good for the learning process.

All the lads at last weeks YWTC in portugal were "on the limit" of what the bikes would do. Isn't that what it will always be like at the top level? I could almost gaurentee that all the top 6 in Spain and Portugal would have had a better result on a 250cc, so to me it is the right way to progress.

Back in the USA it would take a great deal of long sightedness for any parent to have the faith that one day his boy would benefit from staying on a smaller cc bike when the rules allow and the sections are easier on such a machine. Also coming into play would be sponsorship, if an importer wants a winner why would he allow a 125cc to be used?

Edited April 13, 2006 by Nigel Dabster

[nsaqam]

Truly excellent insight Nigel and I couldn't agree more!

Thanks for posting that!

[perce]

Kids can't compete until they are 6.

No kid can ride an over capacity bike as they are not insured to do so.

This is what our Club runs, a lot of Clubs do the same or very similar.

We run a conducted course at our events which is a totally different to the rest of the Trial, this is for the small wheel classes 6 to 8 year olds. We do allow older beginner kids to ride this just to let them find out what it's all about. They usually do a lap as a group together then they are allowed to go round on their own after that, they usually will have 4 or 5 laps of 10 sections.

At 9 / 10 when they go into C class they ride in the main event with everyone else, which to be honest can be quite daunting for them & in my opinion too much for the majority. The first year in C class sees many of them struggle.

As a Club we run Trials with 3 routes, Hard 50 / 50 & Easy. ( 50 / 50 does 1/2 the hard sections 1/2 the easy sections) The kids can ride any level they want, it's down to their level of riding ability. The majority of C class do the easy route but then the A & B will split down 25% 25% 50% hard to easy.

[city trials]

Who knew I would be so ahead of my time with this story? I wrote about this subject in Trials World last year. If more people would have bought the magazine maybe they wouldn't be out of business now.

FYI, I got paid well for this article and the check didn't bounce. Thanks TW.

Edited April 13, 2006 by City Trials

[nsaqam]

I wish there was a mag in publication about this sport other than Trials Competition which I subscribe to and enjoy.

Anyone know where I can get back issues of Trials World? Anyone have a set they'd like to sell?

[alan bechard]

Chris, yes, in our system a younger child can ride.

Dean rode the 6 year old class three years (and no, I am not kidding)

OK you UK guys here is the next question.

How many entries do you have in these classes?

And you American guys, go to your club and count how many of these bikes are physically there.

[nsaqam]

Great article Craig. You laid it out well IMO.

[nsaqam]

Alan, there has to be a structure in place before the bikes begin showing up. For example, there were no 4 strokes in MX or SX before the current structure was put in place by the AMA. Then Doug Henry and Yamaha showed up, then a few more and you know the rest.

There may be some lean years and small fields initially but it will grow and quickly become a well stocked class IMO.

I'll surely put my kids on a 125 whether by mandate or not.

[alan bechard]

NSAGM, I am going to go out on a limb here, and someone prove me wrong, but I bet there are 10 or less modern 125's in the STRA area. And just for reference, we need to get out a globe, but I will again hang out on a limb and say if you overlaid a map of the STRA area, I bet it covers the vast bulk of western Europe, and I am certain it would cover the UK and Spain (which is who we are primarily referring too when we say Europe) Don't be deluded into thinking that Germany or France has the Trials bug like Spain and the UK.

Now I got to go look at Mapquest and see if I can figure out how to check what I just said.

Probably a handful more 80's.

About the same modern 50's.

I am not counting the various bikes that folks like TTC and BetaUSA have except what they are actually riding.

You know, I was typing more, but at some point I guess I mean you need to go ride a couple of events, and count the bikes there. These things are not going to magically appear. If you think Trials riders are going to run out and whoop a bunch of money on their dealers and distributors so that they can compete this class, I just suggest you hang around trials a bit and see how readily everyone parts with their money.

[nsaqam]

You may be correct about the number of 125's out there at present. That said, while I was scouring every trials website out there looking for a bike for HATR I noticed an awful lot of '03 and newer fullsize bikes out there for sale. A suprising number of '05 models. This leads me to believe that folks are buying new bikes relatively frequently. If they are buying a new bike every 2-3 years then they'd probably buy a 125 if regulations mandated that kids compete on a 125. Or to put it differently, if the rules made it attractive to compete on a 125.

Parents, even trials parent I imagine, spend big bucks on their children. Partly to make the parent feel good and partly because the parent wants to live vicariously through their kids, sometimes unfortunately, with tragic and unintended results.

The median income of trials parents can be no different than that of other motorcycle parents can it? I'm sure there are trials parents out there who buy their kid a car on the childs 16th birthday.

Make a class, make it attractive, promote the benefits and the bikes will come IMO. The importers will bring in any bike that will sell.

Nigel really points out the benefits to our kids in a way that I didn't even contemplate. Kids wringing the necks of their 125s better prepares them for the neck wringing they'll have to do on the big bikes if and when they get to WTC level. Excellent and insightful!

[nigel dabster]

NSAGM,

Edited April 14, 2006 by Nigel Dabster

[brian r]

Alan, I can only come up with 6 125's in STRA.

Two of those weren't riden in STRA last year.

One more of those hasn't been ridden yet in an

STRA event.

[alan bechard]

Hmmmm, From ME (I am in the Northern part of the STRA zone)

This year to go ride my LOCAL (not National) series

TTC 3 hours drive

Newnan GA 6 hours

Cornelia 6 hours

TTC 3 hours

Gadsden 4 hours

Hattiesburg 8 hours

These are one way drives. (in other words, double them to count round trip's)

This does not get me to the Nationals (much less something like the European championships)

I think (one of you CA guys help me out) it was a 3+ day solid drive for the CA guys to come to TN

It is about a 13 hour drive each way for me to the Florida events (depends where they are having them) and that is to relatively the middle of the state.

So, trying to get back a little on track, and maybe I just need to let the train go, it really does not matter what is said here, it is what is put forward to the NATC reps, what is put forward at the NATC meeting, then what is decided at the NATC meeting and then as Bulsher I believe said, what the NATC actually does after the meeting, that counts in so far as a 125 class.

My point here attempting to be, we do not have the support in the US to support a 125 class, not to mention the fact that I think you will rapidly come up with multiple 125 classes if that is the direction you go. If in a geographic area, similar to what the UK rides in their European championship (No, not the same, but similar) we can only count a handfull of bikes.

NSAGM What line do you think the 125 would ride.

For reference, Lane put forth that they should ride the sportsman line.

I believe Ron put forth he would like to see them on the Expert line.

That leaves Expert Support and Pro still open.

My question back to the UK guys, particularly experienced Trialmasters / club secerataries, Just how long would you guys run a class that has 4 participants in it?

I guess that is moot, we already do that for classes that have less...

[nsaqam]

I liked Lanes suggestion that all the riders ride the Sportsman line and then the top 5 ride a separate, much harder line. The ElTrial format I think he called it. But I'm surely not the guy to answer that.

As I said before, not many bikes now but create an attractive framework and the bikes will come.

As for our geographical issues, MX has thrived while suffering the very same geographical challenge.

Change nearly always entails hardship but given some of the benefits mentioned by Nigel, Mr. Lampkin, and others do you not agree that a properly devised 125 class may have some real benefits for our kids? Primarily if they have aspirations to compete against the worlds best someday.

Or does the idea of Americans someday competing for and winning world championships hold no allure for you?