the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 If I wanted to do/try something new connected to trials, I have always just gone out and done it. If you guy's think a 125 championship is just what is needed in the US, do it!! Gear the whole thing around your target, a few of you get together put an event each on, during the summer vacation time, call it the US 125 national championship. Open to 125 machines only, who's allowed to ride, how many classes you think it needs, and run the series. If it looks like doing well, after a test period, I would think the AMA / NATC would be keen to take it on. Looking at the posts, no one has a clue of what classes or which line should be used, but you expect to go to the NATC with an half baked plan, and they will except it. Or is this more!! we would like others to do this for us, but don't want to do it ourselves ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Wow Alan that is alot of driving,Most events are less than a 2 hour drive for me and the most is about 3 1/2 hours,unless I go up north to the PITS events and then its 6 to 8 hour drive. Yes its about a 3 day drive to Tenn. unless you drive straight thru I still don't know where a stand on this 125 thing,I keep going back and forth on it.There are many 125's around here and I think that here at least there a little hard to sell used. To me there are too many classes at the nationals,every five years seems a bit much.Do we get that much worse every 5 years?Of course knowing the riders and seeing the scores the 40 on up classes are some of the toughest.Every ten years is good starting at 40.They dropped my class "SR 30" and it was a good idea.Do they have all these classes to get attendance up?More guys to chase there own championship?I know that has nothing to do with 125's but,Less classes would make room for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 The point is that many folks would like our National Trials organization to take the lead in producing a new generation of riders to legitimately challenge the worlds best. Very few have the financial wherewithal to pull off any sort of championship without the support and the insurance that the AMA provides, and by extension the NATC. Jeremy McGrath is doing just this in SX but he has $$$ and connections to go along with his considerable marketability. He'll make it happen! Trials needs the support of the AMA and the NATC. Are you folks resigned to the fact that producing world champions in the US is too daunting of a task to even attempt? Or is that goal not worthy? If Lanes plan was refined to address the issues pointed out last time it was presented would it get adopted? Would it get a fair hearing without any bias due to Lane being the prime author? Do you disagree with those like Mr. Lampkin, Nigel, and others who believe that a 125 Nat'l Championship would make our young riders better? If so why? If not why then not do it? The distances are too great you say, have an East and a West series like supercross lites (hate that name). Too few competitors? Possibly so initially. 5 pros contested the entire Nat'l Championship series last year. Will the NATC eliminate the Professional Nat'l Championship due to sparse participation? I'm confident you'd find 5 kids to compete in the East and 5 to compete in the West. Saying to take this idea and make it happen without any support from the AMA and NATC is a cop out. This idea needs to be presented at every opportunity to the NATC and the NATC needs to examine the merits of the plan and hammer out any differences and flesh out any lean areas. It surely is under no obligation to adopt anything but if a plan with some merit and a few holes is presented to the NATC shouldn't they at least discuss it and try to address the shortcomings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I would like to volunteer to help with the writing of a presentation to the NATC for the adoption of a 125 Nat'l Championship. I can provide very little help with the specifics but I will help to put it in writing. I'll also help in any way that you veterans think I can. Doing what I can ishy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Aye, what the **** would I know, show me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 NSAGM, the way you approach this is the way my county government does taxes, First, they stand up and say that the schools need new buildings. Then they stand up and say that they need to raise my taxes to pay for these new schools. Then when I say that I do not want to pay these new taxes, and point out that last time they raised my taxes it was to pay for the new schools but somehow the money got diverted and somehow never made it to the schools they then say, I am Unamerican and dont love Children. Said another way, Yes, I think it would be great to have another American world Champion. Just because I do not support THIS particular plan because I believe it to be a boondoggle and a waste of the limited resources that we have in the US Trials community does not mean I do not want the US trials community to succeed. At some point, I wish I would get a little credit, in that I have kids in this hunt, they are on the bikes that we are discussing, I have been there the last several years supporting, working with others and doing my best to help the American Trials program progress. Maybe, just maybe, that gives me a touch of insight that you may be missing. Add to this that I would be amazed if I have done 10% of the effort that Ishy and many others have done to make this sport advanced. I will quit whining now, I think Ishy hit the nail on the head, as I was told by an NATC rep, If you want to see standardized classes, go out and make it happen. In the FWIW category, if you want to do something positive for Trials, I would suggest looking no further then your backyard and getting that club going in Duluth you were speaking of. Last word I heard there may be some difficulties with the Spirit Mt. Venue, keep that open and accessible and that will positively impact the sport, I guarantee that one. (If there are no issue's with Spirit Mt. I apologize, I heard it second hand) I guess the point I would want to drive home, is get 5 youths actively riding and competing in the existing NATC series that are available, and that will help the US progress more then anything. And please, sidebar, quit saying Un-American if someone disagrees with you. I hold my own in the patriotism department and just find it offensive as all get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 ishy, you come up with a post about pulling off a Nat'l Championship from scratch with no support from NATC or AMA and when the idiocy of this is pointed out and some legitimate questions are asked you get all petulant like my 4 year old. That's chickensh**!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Ken, you just called a guy chicken .... that rode a 125 in the SSDT. I'd say he's not. Listen a minute, the STRA is a pretty good sized club. Probably 200 riders. We have 6 125 riders 3 are young women (one has been in Germany all of this season so far and will still be there a while longer) (one has competed only one or two events last year) (one competes on a regular basis) 3 are young men (one hasn't competed at all yet) (one hasn't competed in a couple of years but he and his dad always help out with the checking) (and lastly, one rides in the PRO class or the Expert class) Good freaking luck sorting out a 125 class! Folks are putting their kids on 125's to help them, not to compete in a class. Maybe if there was a 125 class we would bring the number of bikes up but it wouldn't go from 6 to 20 or 30. We just don't have that many in that age bracket. We all hope trials grows, we would like to see a US champ or at least someone to cheer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 You come on here logg in to the mental ward, and think you have it all sussed oop's Let me give you a little tip, nowt will happen! it never does, but some have to get bit a time or two to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Shhhhhhh,,,, Ishy, you were'nt supposed to tell him yet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 This thread is about a 125 Nat'l C-ship. The work that ishy and everyone else has done for the sport of US trials is surely appreciated and by all accounts it is successful in providing competition and entertainment to those involved. If that is the intent of the NATC then cool. If the intent was to showcase and grow trials in the US then it hasn't been so successful, as evidenced by stagnant or declining club enrollment. If the NATC intent was to have an important and competitive Nat'l C-ship then they only partly succeeded, it is competitive but only among 5 people throughout a land of 280 million. Finally, if the intent of the NATC was to help produce the best trialers in the world then they have been a dismal failure. The proposal for a 125 Nat'l C-ship is a method some feel would help our youngsters better compete with the best. You may not agree that this is a viable method or even that there is no hope for a US born and bred world champion within the context of the NATC. This is fine but unfortunate IMO. Clearly what we have been doing in the US isn't working to produce elite class competitors. If the US being the best is important to you, it is to me, then the present system isn't doing the trick. When something isn't working to reach the ends I seek, then alternatives need to be explored. This is a search for alternatives. Duluth has hosted 3 WTCs in 4 years. We don't have a trials club within 200 miles of here. We have a miniscule trials community in comparison to some areas of the Country but Steve Ahlers wanted the worlds best to come to his backyard and he worked hard to make it happen. I'm proud to have helped him in a small way. The TTC is hosting one this year and I'm sure those folks are working hard to make it the best WTC ever. Great for TTC to host this because of all the hard work they do to train our youngsters. Did Portland ever host a WTC or does excellence not matter in Portland? Is there nobody in Portland who would like to see the worlds best in their backyard? Is nobody in Portland willing to do the work required to host a WTC event? I'll submit to you that 20 local trials events in Portland would do less to grow this sport than 1 WTC event. More and more I'm seeing that there is little interest in growing the sport. The status quo is fine. You profess love and admiration for those who sacrifice for this sport but doing what it takes to grow the sport and finally get these folks their just rewards is out of the question. To grow a sport you have to bring NEW people in and not just your own children. You have to convert the MXer, the mountain biker, the skateboarder, the librarian, and the stock car racer. These folk don't even hear about local trials events but they do hear about it when the WTC comes to town. When they see footage of the WTC riders on their local news they buy a ticket and then they tell a friend and then they buy a bike and then the sport grows. These outsiders couldn't care less about a bunch of talented old men and their families riding around on some rocks. The WTC got me and HATR hooked and many others in this area as well. We didn't even know there were trialers in this area until the WTC came to town. If you folks are happy with stagnant growth and impoverished importers then so be it but don't slam me for wanting something better. And advocating for it and working for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 (edited) NSAGM,,, You need to go back and read Ishy's credits that Jack Betty wrote up on his post to you, I think you will relook at your post maybe and go,,, Oooopppps. As to the tail end of your post, if you would review old posts, and have some more experience in Trials, you may find that those of us that you are so actively "slamming" Have done, and are doing, the very things that you mentioned. As a for instance. I organized an event last year.... I found a sponsorhip angel that printed, did all the work and mailed apporximately 2000 flyers to everyone that is on the Mid South Hare Scramble series mailing list. I held a seperate class for them. I set sections with the needs of their bikes in mind, I borrowed an enduro bike and preroad the event for them. Doug dedicated his day to working with those riders that showed (5) and taking them around and showing them trials and allowing them to experience it with the bikes they had then secured them rides on Trials bikes for the ones that were interested. I guess I am just not communicating with you, and the tone of your last post just sums it up. I will cheer when your kid is at the top of the podium of the WR. You think you got it figured out how to get there, knock yourself out. I for one will look around at the folks that are doing the work and learn from them. I will try and assist them, and if I think something should be done different or better, I will approach that person, make my suggestion, then implement it myself if possible. If not possible, I will still support that guy and not tell him he is not doing it right. Pointed question. Have you spoken to your NATC Rep and asked what his position on the 125 class proposal is / was? I would imagine it was Steve, but maybe there is a different club rep? Anyway, you want to do something to get this going, there is the place to start. It is pretty dang insulting to come on here and tell us what we are not doing when you really do not know, much less tell us we are not doing it when it has been pointed out too you that it was done. Edited April 14, 2006 by Alan Bechard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsaqam Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 I didn't call HIM chickens**t, just his response! Big difference! You still haven't addressed the issues and quite frankly I don't ever expect you to. As for nothing happening, you're probably right with hidebound relics like you throwing up roadblocks to legitimate attempts at excellence and growth. Talk all you want about how much you do but it's not working. The sport is stagnant and not because of limited appeal. It's because of limited exposure. The kind you only get when you showcase the best and strive for excellence. Enjoy your local events and remember the impoverished importer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian r Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Who has thrown up road blocks? Alan with a kid on a 125? Ishy that rode a 125? Me, my 13 year old is on a 70 Rookie we hope to move to a 125 soon. Lane? what size is Daniels bike? He's still on a 125 isn't he? We are just TRYING to tell you how it is, maybe it can change, I don't know. I do know that you are preaching to the choir on this one. The choir is just trying to tell you how it is now. Personally I don't think trials will ever be huge here in the USA. I've explained my thoughts before on it just not being as spectator friendly and no big moment at the end like racing has. That being said, I think it's the greatest motorcycle sport in the world and I'm afraid I'm addicted to it ( I just stink as a rider). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Ken, you just called a guy chicken .... that rode a 125 in the SSDT. I'd say he's not. Listen a minute, the STRA is a pretty good sized club. Probably 200 riders. We have 6 125 riders 3 are young women (one has been in Germany all of this season so far and will still be there a while longer) (one has competed only one or two events last year) (one competes on a regular basis) 3 are young men (one hasn't competed at all yet) (one hasn't competed in a couple of years but he and his dad always help out with the checking) (and lastly, one rides in the PRO class or the Expert class) Good freaking luck sorting out a 125 class! Folks are putting their kids on 125's to help them, not to compete in a class. Maybe if there was a 125 class we would bring the number of bikes up but it wouldn't go from 6 to 20 or 30. We just don't have that many in that age bracket. We all hope trials grows, we would like to see a US champ or at least someone to cheer for. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you lot are completely missing the point , don't add a 125 class make all the youngsters ride 125cc and no 250cc till they are 18 simple. The 125 cc class doesn't exist so why would it be anything but small??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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