125 National Championship

[alan bechard]

I think you lot are completely missing the point , don't add a 125 class make all the youngsters ride 125cc and no 250cc till they are 18 simple.

The 125 cc class doesn't exist so why would it be anything but small???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK Nigel, your right, let me turn this around.

I think all riders under 18 should ride an 80, why, I know they are capable, I have seen Ray Peters ride an 80 through Champ level section. Damn impressive, the bikes don't hold you back, you would have been impressed had you seen Ray on those rocks in Sequatchie wringing that little 80 out for all it is worth. Yep, by god, teaches them to be a better rider it does. If you UK guys want to have a world champ again, by god, best get them on an 80. And hey, it is easy to implement, no problem. Just force them all onto 80's and do not have a class for those 125's, after all, they all will buy bikes, you know, and those guys will all get better because they are on 80's.

So, how quick are you guys going to switch over?

What do you think will happen to the attendance in the 80 class?

We get to meet in a month right Nigel, Wiggy coming? I am honestly and sincerly looking forward too it. Even if you do talk funny.

[nsaqam]

Duluth, with its 70,000 people and maybe 100,000 in the entire area managed to host 3 WTC events. Since the first one in '02 we've produced 1 HS champ and caused 4 people I know to get bikes. We 4 probably doubled the number of bike owners in this area. These are only the ones I know of, I'm sure there is more. How many local events would it have taken to double the ridership in the area? This to me is the draw that can only be experienced by having the very best compete in your area. How many local events have your local TV stations produced 30 minute programs for? Only the best get this kind of coverage and therefore get the general public interested.

IMO, the NATC should spend NO time or energy for 40 year old guys like me to have a good time. They should spend ALL their time and treasure to make our kids the very best in the world. Old guys, even extremely talented old guys, aren't gonna draw a single outsider into this sport.

Get our youngsters winning WTC titles and the media and the fans will bust down the door.

[Andy]

Did Portland ever host a WTC or does excellence not matter in Portland? Is there nobody in Portland who would like to see the worlds best in their backyard? Is nobody in Portland willing to do the work required to host a WTC event? I'll submit to you that 20 local trials events in Portland would do less to grow this sport than 1 WTC event.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When he's not liggin' on t'couch, old Ishy has been known to organise the odd world round - a lot of it single handed and at his own expense. No disrespect mate, but you're digging yourself a hole here!

[nsaqam]

Once again Alan, the absurd. Make the class the bikes will follow. Happened in Spain, and in GB.

Don't feel insulted, just realize that all the hard work done has resulted in mediocrity at the world level.

[sirhc]

Wow, I go to my daughters Easter parade and all hell breaks loose

There was a World Round in Washigton in like 01 I think and I'm sure Ishy had a little to do with it.

Keep it up guys

Edited April 14, 2006 by sirhc

[alan bechard]

Once again Alan, the absurd. Make the class the bikes will follow. Happened in Spain, and in GB.

Don't feel insulted, just realize that all the hard work done has resulted in mediocrity at the world level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right, I am absurd, and am making absurd examples. And of course with your experience and insight you have it spot on.

Yup we get that 125 class we will have world Champs in no time.

Eagerly watching to see it implemented next year.

On edit,

Are you sure about the "facts" that you are quoting that the 125's came about in Europe because they made the class?

Second Edit,

Ok, I cannot stand it, why is my analogy absurd?

Because I am suggesting folks ride smaller displacement bikes as a means to improve their skills?

Because I am telling another country to do it?

Because it would be ridiculous to expect everyone to change because I thougt it a great idea?

Because of the Ray Peters riding champ level stuff was ridiculous?

Because I suggested that the UK needs a World Champ?

Spell it out please, exactly why was what I said absurd, or is it just absurd when others say something that you do not agree with?

Edited April 14, 2006 by Alan Bechard

[brian r]

100,000 at Duluth?

Hawkstone only had 8,000.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Dabster trades his Sherco in for a Gas Gas, and goes all 125 on us, daft bugger stop winding them up.

Seen many nsaqam's say how big it can be and how it should be done, not seen one actualy do owt though, normaly if they can't get someone else to do it for them they **** off and bother the next thing to take thier fancy.

[copemech]

I have my own opinions about this subject, not that anyone cares, but I will throw in a couple of things!

A 125 is a very capable machine and as many of the HS class kids already prove riding the ES line in the Nationals here, AND the bikes are in most cases capable of even more as set forth by the Euro riders on even larger obsticles than we here mostly ride.

I too believe that there may be too many classes in the US Nationals, why not just a 30,40,50,60,70 class, for the support AGE groups and,If you want to give more trophies, then do more places. It is a fairly standard practice here in the Texas State Series to award trophies to approx. 1/2 of the class entrants. It also serves to elevate the level of compepition of the top riders in each class.

The "support " class is still the "bread and butter" mainstream of the NATC, both financially and otherwise. All that want to ride and support this series should be able to do it! And we should encourage the participation of the riders to support the series, GO FIGURE!

The current JR class would be a good candidate for 125's only and could be the 125 National Championship, with a twist, it could be open to all riders. In other words, if you want to become the US National 125 Champ on the Support line, then go out and buy yourself a 125 and see if you can beat them kids! Good Luck! Few if any are good enough to try! The KICKER is that you must do the SERIES! Spending a couple of weekends riding Youth Nationals will not cut the mustard here!

If the HS kids are THAT good already on the ES line, then limiting them to 250cc should not be a problem now should it! A nice transition to the EX and PRO classes. If they want to ride the upper classes on whatever they want, then let them, simple as that! Even on a 250 it is not normally considered to be a handicapp!

THE SHOCKER! Kids like Pat and Cody DO NOT WANT to ride 125's! Just ask them!

Food for thought!

MC

[sideup]

nasqam:

Duluth, with its 70,000 people and maybe 100,000 in the entire area managed to host 3 WTC events. Since the first one in '02 we've produced 1 HS champ and caused 4 people I know to get bikes. We 4 probably doubled the number of bike owners in this area. These are only the ones I know of, I'm sure there is more. How many local events would it have taken to double the ridership in the area?

Edited April 15, 2006 by sideup

[nsaqam]

A WTC with Americans winning would.

[nsaqam]

Alan, it's absurd because you don't believe it. It's absurd because you don't support a 125 class in the NATC as a waste of time and resources but a 80 class is a good idea. It's absurd because if you did believe it you, being a man of action, would have drawn up the perfect plan for presentation to NATC. And it's absurd because the point of a 125 NC is to get in line with the Europeans whose system is producing champions and our system isn't. Not even close.

That's what it comes down to, our system doesn't translate on the world stage, either in form or in results. No arguing it, the very best we have produced would get poor results at the WTC level, he said it himself. Our NATC doesn't have the balls to do WHATEVER they think is required to beat the best out there. But they sure have made a bunch of old guys feel good by taking home alot of trophies. YIPEE!

[bwc352]

I'm not sure that nsaqam's following quote about old farts not being able to draw new people to the sport is accurate.

Nsaqam: "Old guys, even extremely talented old guys, aren't gonna draw a single outsider into this sport."

At the age of 48, I decided to try out trials and bought a trials bike (a Sherco 290). Before I did so, there were only 4 trials riders I know of that lived in my area, and 3 of them rarely rode -- even the 4th probably only rode a couple of times a year. It turned out that I love the sport much more than I had even hoped I would have, and I suspect that my resulting enthusiasm is at least in some small way responsible for helping to ignite an increase in our local trials-riding numbers. In the past year or so, 5 more people in the area have purchased trials bikes and have started to ride. On top of that, the other original 4 riders all ride more frequently than they used to. I'm no expert in this matter, but based on my first hand experience, enthusiasm while practicing in the woods can be a VERY effective way of introducing new people to the sport. And this is from an old guy who is NOT extremely talented!

Just my two cents on that one particular part of your post.

[eric23]

What's going to help this sport grow is bringing other motorcycle riders into trials. Folks out there not riding motorcylces now are going to marvel at the WTC or even our National expert/pro riders, IF you can get them to the events. But thinking that they will run out and buy a bike and start riding trials is a pipe dream. The heart and soul of this sport is the club rider. Get a family who has some youngsters riding XR50's out to a club event, and have some sections layed out so they can have some fun. Let the parents see all the great kids in the sport and meet genuinely nice people like the Bechards, Bill Markem etc. That's where the growth will come. Here in Arizona we got the local dirtbike bulletin board to add a trials forum. We've generated some interest and several prominant enduro/hare scrambles riders have bought trials bikes. We need to get them out on a regular basis to ride our events (always some scheduling conflict with a big race). The next step is to have a path so that if the youngsters starting on XR50's get the bug, they can go as far as they can. Some folks here seem to think that if they don't make it to the WTC we've somehow failed them. BS!!!! We've provided a great pastime that they can enjoy for a life time (the NTC sr60-70 classes were a great inspiration to me). We've given them an opportunity to form lifetime friendships. Most importantly, we've given them something positive to do with their time. Riding trials can teach you so many basic life skills that you can carry over to everyday living. From my observations in the few years since coming back to this sport, the principle ingredients, besides talent (obviously) to becoming a WTC rider, is to have parents who are self employed, independently wealthy and live in an area where daily practice is possible. That road takes an enormous amout of time, travel and money. Whether they ride a 125 is truly a moot point unless the resources are there.

I've stayed out of this discussion for a while because I'm just an old fart who shows up to club events to have fun. Seems like some of the comments have gotten a bit personal. I've met several of the participants face to face and find it strange that relative newcomers are saying some of these things. Having witnessed the oganization and sheer volume of work that goes into staging an NTC round, I can only tip my hat to Ishy for doing 11 of them. Al, I look forward to the next time we can get together. Believe it or not, Ringo was a gracious house guest and as it turns out, locking up the women was completely unnecessary

[bagger]

you nailed it eric,one has to be pretty well off to take their kids to all the nationals every year.with 3 kids in sports and only 1 that rides trials i cannot aford to take my son all over the usa to compete at the national level.it just wouldnt be fair to the other 2 kids.last summer i took the whole family to tennasee to youth nationals and altough we had a great time my son was a little disapointed in his results.i had to explain to him that most of the kids there were so good because they practiced very hard and their paraents had the time to spend with them and help them grow in this sport.money also is a BIG factor in the development of a good young trials/motocross/enduro/road racer whatever rider.you just have to look in the pits of any race and see the $500,000 motorhomes and toyhaulers.thats just how it is with any motorized sport.when was the last time a world champion came out of the hood to win the wtc or supercross tittle? NEVER! but it happens all the time in football or baseball and basket ball.now i know my kid will never win an natc championship but i would like to put any of these kids on the football feild with him and see what happens.i think the tides would be turned for sure.i also would like to see a major event like the el trial to be held to raise money to send our youth over seas to lern and compete with the best in the world.after watching some of the young guns at the az national 2 weekends ago i can not see any reason why with a little help we cant have a world champ in the very near future.will it be smage? isben? web? who knows for sure but we DO have the talent.

BTW eric,you let ringo in your house?