brownee Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I know the early Vertigos had mapping issues which were sorted pretty quickly so if buying a second hand 17 ice hell, can I be sure the mapping is sorted? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.b Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I have a 250 Camo 2017 and mapping is spot on. Would think the 300's would be sorted as well. Runs very clean in all gears, and revs very high if needed. I have used the first three maps and not had any problems. Starts second kick from cold and nearly always first kick once warm. There is a very noticeable difference in engine charecteristics from map to map. I would think the ice hell would run same mapping as the Camo Works. Only thing I did was buy a spare battery and keep it charged up and carry it with me at a trial. Never needed it yet but it's a just in case item. Never had any pinking issues or running backwards that some people reported on early 2016 bikes. Only high praise from me, absolutely love the bike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I had a 2016 combat and now own a 2017 ice model. The initial mapping on the early 16 models did need amended but that didn't appear to be the only teething problem. The 17 model is very well mapped indeed, pleased with mine and apparently the other little anomalies have been rectified, time will tell. Great bike, no question but nothing without reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 We run a April 2016 Camo. It's on the latest Mapping and Chris didn't like it much compared to the earlier two. The "zip" had gone. However Chris spent some time with different front and rear sprockets and we have found a better setup for him. He also spent some time changing the rear shock. As it comes it damps too much for him. The result was a lack of traction and the feeling He needed to rev it more than he wanted to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownee Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Thanks for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) No Problem. The Engine just keeps firing, just making it good for you is the thing. Given how Many Gas Gas end up on different sprockets it's a simple fix if you can figure what you want. Edited January 10, 2017 by telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniper Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 08/01/2017 at 10:54 AM, the dabster said: I had a 2016 combat and now own a 2017 ice model. The initial mapping on the early 16 models did need amended but that didn't appear to be the only teething problem. The 17 model is very well mapped indeed, pleased with mine and apparently the other little anomalies have been rectified, time will tell. Great bike, no question but nothing without reliability. Would you say the ice hell is worth the extra money, specifically the 2017 version? Seriously considering swapping my 2016 evo factory 300 for one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the dabster Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 11 hours ago, sniper said: Would you say the ice hell is worth the extra money, specifically the 2017 version? Seriously considering swapping my 2016 evo factory 300 for one! It's probably unwise to recommend anything in this context, bike preference is subjective, however I understand your reasoning behind the question. First up I would say I have owned a Factory Beta and Gas Gas recently, both superb bikes! Whether or not an Ice model would suit you more than your Beta is something I cant answer honestly but I can tell you why I decided on a vertigo. Most bikes are much the same but the Vertigo to me has unique features - and therefore performance - which, IMO sets it apart from others currently. The fuel injected engine is the sharp, high revving but unbelievably tractable. I've not ridden any other brand that can quite match it. I agree with telecat from earlier in the post when he said the latest mapping appears to has lost some of the 'zip.' The 16 model appeared more lively on the throttle than the latest one but still very good. The mapping is not a gimmick, I usually run the default setting but have tried the richest setting on the hill in wet / muddy conditions and there is a tangible amount of extra grip available which I consider an aid to my riding. Another intrinsic feature of the bike is the low centre of gravity Vertigo champion as part of the sales pitch, it is notably easier to balance (relatively speaking) than any other bike I've had. Practising in the same area over the years takes me to places where I perform the same floating turns etc and I can say with confidence the V is again the most stable predictable chassis / geometry I've tried to date. The gearing appears too close initially but the more you ride the more you appreciate the benefits. Whether or not you pay the extra for the ice over the camo again is personal but I think the three way adjustable rieger available on the ice trumps the previous set up. The extra weight saving from the titanium pipe and magnesium cases etc probably don't make much difference as I'm limited as a rider. Add to this the clever design and obvious build quality and it's got to be a front runner for anybody who is buying with there own money and wants some engineering advantages over the multi bike spectrum of different brands. In saying that the technology brings it's own caveats and I would happily return to a Factory Beta or Gasser tomorrow, both fantastic bikes but Dougie Lampkin is no mug and he has gone the extra mile whie putting this together and from my perspective as a buyer it shows. In closing I have also had a quick go on a TRS and it was really nice as well, Steve Saunders seems a very decent bloke and I hope he is successful with the TRS! As the old saying goes 'it's horses for courses'. Hope this helps make your decision easier, good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, the dabster said: It's probably unwise to recommend anything in this context, bike preference is subjective, however I understand your reasoning behind the question. First up I would say I have owned a Factory Beta and Gas Gas recently, both superb bikes! Whether or not an Ice model would suit you more than your Beta is something I cant answer honestly but I can tell you why I decided on a vertigo. Most bikes are much the same but the Vertigo to me has unique features - and therefore performance - which, IMO sets it apart from others currently. The fuel injected engine is the sharp, high revving but unbelievably tractable. I've not ridden any other brand that can quite match it. I agree with telecat from earlier in the post when he said the latest mapping appears to has lost some of the 'zip.' The 16 model appeared more lively on the throttle than the latest one but still very good. The mapping is not a gimmick, I usually run the default setting but have tried the richest setting on the hill in wet / muddy conditions and there is a tangible amount of extra grip available which I consider an aid to my riding. Another intrinsic feature of the bike is the low centre of gravity Vertigo champion as part of the sales pitch, it is notably easier to balance (relatively speaking) than any other bike I've had. Practising in the same area over the years takes me to places where I perform the same floating turns etc and I can say with confidence the V is again the most stable predictable chassis / geometry I've tried to date. The gearing appears too close initially but the more you ride the more you appreciate the benefits. Whether or not you pay the extra for the ice over the camo again is personal but I think the three way adjustable rieger available on the ice trumps the previous set up. The extra weight saving from the titanium pipe and magnesium cases etc probably don't make much difference as I'm limited as a rider. Add to this the clever design and obvious build quality and it's got to be a front runner for anybody who is buying with there own money and wants some engineering advantages over the multi bike spectrum of different brands. In saying that the technology brings it's own caveats and I would happily return to a Factory Beta or Gasser tomorrow, both fantastic bikes but Dougie Lampkin is no mug and he has gone the extra mile whie putting this together and from my perspective as a buyer it shows. In closing I have also had a quick go on a TRS and it was really nice as well, Steve Saunders seems a very decent bloke and I hope he is successful with the TRS! As the old saying goes 'it's horses for courses'. Hope this helps make your decision easier, good luck! Wow, thanks for taking the time for a detailed response! TBH I have only ever owned Beta's and my first choice after a break of 17 years, was a nearly new Beta evo; then after a few months once I decided trials was where I wanted to be (motox/enduro was tempting), the beta factory was an obvious choice. However even at that point the Vertigo with the fuel injection etc was almost a winner, but the bike's newness and rumours of a few problems (some issues not on the forums) was enough to put me off, however another year on and further refinements has me thinking again! Regarding the camo vs ice hell, I had came to the same conclusion but wanted to see what other people had concluded. I'm a slightly heavier rider, so on my Beta I have put a heavier spring in the front and adjusted on the rear (Steve Saunders actually made the changes after some time spent with him), so the lack of adjustment on the rear of the camo concerned me! Totally agree that Steve S is a decent bloke who was extremely helpful and hopefully I can have a training session with him at some point this year. However the TRS doesn't really have the appeal to move away from the Beta, whilst I haven't ridden one to me the tech is much the same; nothing ground breaking unlike how I see the Vertigo! I think I know where this is going....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) Chris Found the Rear to be a bit "Dead" and the grip wasn't where he wanted it to be. He adjusted the Reiger taking some of the damping out and tightened the spring up. It's where he likes it now. I think you still have to look at other bikes to make sure which is best for you. Chris would like to try a 17 Gasser to compare. But his favoured option would be the Ice Hell just for the Shock. Edited January 13, 2017 by telecat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniper Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 hours ago, telecat said: Chris Found the Rear to be a bit "Dead" and the grip wasn't where he wanted it to be. He adjusted the Reiger taking some of the damping out and tightened the spring up. It's where he likes it now. I think you still have to look at other bikes to make sure which is best for you. Chris would like to try a 17 Gasser to compare. But his favoured option would be the Ice Hell just for the Shock. Thanks for the response! That's good to here, I always like to be able to adjust the suspension! Yeah, I kind of agree; but the gas gas just doesn't do anything for me. I could be tempted by the Sherco Factory, but again nothing ground breaking, but probably better suspension! I hope that Beta finally start investing some money, as I feel they are becoming a little stale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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