africanjon Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Recently watched the 2016 SSDT vid and Dan Thorpe mentioned he rode most sections in 2'nd gear. Riding last year I attempted most in 1st and struggled to maintain momentum and my line. Not too many similar sections here in California, but have been working hard on it and attempt them mostly in 1st. For those who have ridden similar sections what are your thoughts or tips? I ride a Vertigo 300 with a 38 rear and almost always are using the 3rd map. Much appreciated in advance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Most of the very good riders use second all the time, I find it much too tiring and I end up going to fast everywhere. I think the very good riders use hardly any throttle but make better use of timing and suspension. The different bikes are also geared different, second on a Beta is much lower than second on a GG. If you can use second and you get better results then do so but for most of us 1st works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshock250 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Don't forget a lot of people gear their bikes higher for the Scottish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 There are overwhelming reasons why riding in a higher gear is better on traditional no stop SSDT style sections. It is the equivalent of short shifting in racing cars or MX on slippery tracks to gain to improve traction and stability. Sammy Millers book "Clean to the finish" (now selling for £100 to £1,000 per copy) gives a good explanation. I can remember recommending this book to the lady poster who used to ride a Beta, now a 4RT about a year or two ago when there was a copy available for £35. Would have been a good investment. If any one knows Sammy closely perhaps they could talk him into doing a reprint of all his books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Wet riding vs dry hard traction is two different worlds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 9 hours ago, dadof2 said: There are overwhelming reasons why riding in a higher gear is better on traditional no stop SSDT style sections. It is the equivalent of short shifting in racing cars or MX on slippery tracks to gain to improve traction and stability From experience of watching (and riding) the SSDT in the 70s and spectating recently, I believe there are few sections remaining of the traditional, straightforward "blast up a rocky path" type which I think Dadof2 means. Most sections now are more brutal, involving launching over huge rocks or up severe waterfalls or steps. You'll still be riding over the traditional going, but between sections rather than in them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Agree Cleanorbust I'm not knocking Sammy Miller but id pay good money to watch Dadof2 try Meall Nam Each or Lagnaha in 3rd on a Bulto Bikes and sections move on, its not the 70s anymore. I last rode in 2013, i'm just giving the guy the benefit of my reasonably relevant experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
africanjon Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Rode it last year and the sections were incredibly challenging, there were no "easier sections". They were long, super technical and had a lot of steps in them. 1st would get me to the step but the combination of lack of technique and low momentum would invariably lead me to not making the step. The way the top riders place the front wheel exactly where they wanted was mind boggling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, africanjon said: Rode it last year and the sections were incredibly challenging, there were no "easier sections". They were long, super technical and had a lot of steps in them. 1st would get me to the step but the combination of lack of technique and low momentum would invariably lead me to not making the step. The way the top riders place the front wheel exactly where they wanted was mind boggling! I got up trotters burn in 1st, and the big waterfall at Gorton in first but that's not often used. Witches burn needs second but its a lot more open, its also bigger ! I've never ridden a vertigo so I don't know how the gearing compares to a Gas Gas. The steps are often as much about technique as the gear you use, as you point out the good guys are quite relaxed and accurate whereas everyone else has a bit of fear / adrenalin running so will probably hit it too fast. I used to find by the time I got to the step in second id be offline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
africanjon Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 It was my first time on the Vertigo so took a little getting used too, as there is a lot of power on top which requires a soft hand. Actually did not even think about the bike until I got home and realized I preferred it to my Ossa. I seem to be quite skilled at getting offline To Dadof2's point there was a fellow on bike #255 a '81 Bultaco that made me question if had made the wrong bike choice...he floated up most sections and looked as fresh as a daisy at each days end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Quote Rode it the last couple of years and as I only ride easy club trials it's a bit of an eye opener. Looking at a section I decide if it's really worth it going for a clean and if not plan out a controlled 3. This way I don't tire myself out and it saves the bike and saves a lot of marks at the end of 180 sections. You can look a right puddin dabbing all the way through easy bits but it does pay off Not often I worry about gear selection 2nd for the loose stuff and really big steps 1st for the rest ran out of riding ability before I ran out of grip. . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I was not suggesting the SSDT sections were the same as 40 years ago. However they for the most part are still slippery cobbles / boulders where maintaining forwards momentum is a key factor, unlike most WTC dry grippy sections which favour a hesitate / stop and launch it approach. The higher the gear used the less likely is wheel spin irrespective of the speed, this as stated by Miller is still true today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 SSDT has big wide sections with a 2x tyre wide line, get off line & you're stuffed. It's an awful lot easier to stay on line on a bike you're bossing as opposed to one you're chasing, I can't ever remember using 2nd very much when I rode, 1st was always plenty. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 20 hours ago, dadof2 said: I was not suggesting the SSDT sections were the same as 40 years ago. However they for the most part are still slippery cobbles / boulders where maintaining forwards momentum is a key factor, unlike most WTC dry grippy sections which favour a hesitate / stop and launch it approach. The higher the gear used the less likely is wheel spin irrespective of the speed, this as stated by Miller is still true today. Wrong dadoff. That may have been true to someone of millers ability (saw him ride a few times in muddy trials down south) and in the day when bikes were half the power of today, but wind a bike up in a high gear and itll spin easier in the hands of a novice, average guy. Speed in the correct gear not a higher one = more traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 No ND I am correct it is you who are wrong - learn some basic physics / mechanics. Perhaps you think all the MX1, Moto GP and F1 drivers are wrong too when the short shift to avoid loss of traction in slippery conditions. You will also find some cars / vehicles with auto transmission have a sand / snow setting. This changes the gearbox so they set off in second gear to get more grip. I have first hand experience of one of these veicles (220 BHP) which is a fair bit more than any trials bike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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