hgas Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 There seems to be loads of monts about these days but you never see hardly any experts riding them in trials , why is this are they just that little bit too heavy ?underpowered?not competetive ?correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's only Rob Warner that rides British championship occasionly apart from that they have no presence in the championship? ,you'd think one of the many UK dealers would get a decent lad on one to show what they are capable of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 Not really any point, going by their owners average age most probably got one instead of a gold watch when they retired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 I would prefer one to a gold watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 15, 2017 Report Share Posted January 15, 2017 The 4RT does not track near as good as you would expect, and does not turn as well than most. It is a thirteen year old design. A Beta 200 is the best clubman bike for a lower score. Though for some owning the 4Rt is a good investment in their mind. I would love to have a 300 RR, just cannot justify it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) So I guess my response is a question... What percent of the people who rid trials at all are even going to get to the level of expert? And with most of the people I know that even want a 4T bike at all (Beta or Montesa) are in the clubeman level I can't see a lot of them getting to the upper levels. Then when, or if, you do get to the upper levels whoever is giving the best/most sponsorship options/deals will be the one with the most bikes at that level (within reason). The simple fact is that even a Beta 4T or Montesa 4RT can be a competitive bike depending on what you are interested in. I know my 4RT is way more bike than I am rider and I am quite happy in intermediate and even expect it will take me up to advanced without being my biggest disadvantage as I am sure the biggest issue I have with riding is myself not the bike. My 2 cents. Edited January 16, 2017 by jonnyc21 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwb5151 Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 There are many reasons why experts dont ride them They are heavy compared to 2 strokes so its not as easy to bounce them around. Its hard to adjust to the four stroke riding style some people cant adjust to it You dont get the instant acceleration from them compared to a 2 stroke Expert riders think they need more power and big bore kits are expensive. They are more novice friendly because they don't require a lot of maintenance and they are bullet proof. This is my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted January 16, 2017 Report Share Posted January 16, 2017 This is a question that intrigues me, because there has to be a reason why Montesas are more expensive secondhand than any other bikes. Heavier? Not according to the manufacturer's figures. Not so good on tight stuff? Hypothetically perhaps, because they are 10-15mm longer in the wheelbase, but I suspect they are just as hoppable if you're into that sort of thing. Quality? The Honda engine is the product of a world-renowned mainline company, whereas all other trials bikes are made by specialists wit hlimited resources. So perhaps that's true. I don't know. More opinions required, preferably with reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbk Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 Been riding 2006 4rt since i took it out of the box still runs great i did just place an order for a 2017 300rr. Im about to turn 55 i started riding trials in 04 started on gg 280 then went to an 05 gg im not meant to ride a 2t i rode the montesa on some of the same courses that i could not clean on my GG and cleaned on it . With fuel my bike weighs in at 164lbs I switch ,also im not always working on my bike i put gas in and ride .I feel the montesa is by far the best deal for the money they just dont fall apart. Its a HONDA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 hours ago, oni nou said: Quality adds weight though, about 6kg difference between a GasGas 300 gp 2017 and a HM 300RR 2017 That's quite a lot.... as in you would need to ride the GasGas around with six 1ltr cartons of milk strapped to it to get the quality effect. I'll bet 90% are carrying alot more than 6kgs around ... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbofurball Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, b40rt said: I'll bet 90% are carrying alot more than 6kgs around ... They always used to say the bast way to reduce weight on a motorbike was to go on a diet, lol(I need to go on a diet ...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 hours ago, oni nou said: Quality adds weight though, about 6kg difference between a GasGas 300 gp 2017 and a HM 300RR 2017 That's quite a lot.... as in you would need to ride the GasGas around with six 1ltr cartons of milk strapped to it to get the quality effect. An interesting choice of analogy. I suspect the extra 6kg takes a rather more useful form than cartons of milk though. I would be interested to know what form the 6kg actually takes: a 4T engine is inherently heavier than an equivalent 2T so maybe 2 or 3kg there? The rest likely to be in either the gearbox or the frame, where it hopefully provides a bit more robustness. Certainly all the Mont fans make claims for the durability and reliability. I'll admit I was slightly surprised by the 6kg difference. It's more than I thought. Put another way, it's around 9%. So back to my question: why do secondhand bike buyers want to pay more for something that is 9% heavier and allegedly less manoevrable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 hours ago, trapezeartist said: Certainly all the Mont fans make claims for the durability and reliability. I'll admit I was slightly surprised by the 6kg difference. It's more than I thought. Put another way, it's around 9%. So back to my question: why do secondhand bike buyers want to pay more for something that is 9% heavier and allegedly less manoevrable? Perhaps because some prefer a 4t, others because it's a Honda and there has always been a mystique with the Honda Trials story (over-egged maybe) Perhaps the fit and finish suits them, maybe some like the trinkets available I like mine, because it makes me smile sometimes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 6kg maybe an issue if you are trying to flick and hop but ride up a stream or on more natural section and it is no disadvantage at all. Possible a benefit as C of G is low to help balance. Probably why they are popular with older riders riding more traditional trials. Also why you see a few riders switching to a Mont for the SSDT then selling after or for the Scott - knowing it will finish (even if the rider doesn't) A 5 year old Mont is more durable than a 5 year old light 2 stroke - hence better resale value. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) It's all relative; not so many years ago when all bikes were 6kg heavier than now we thought they were super light. The only time the weight of a bike (short of the old Enfield I used to be loaned) makes itself known, with my riding style, is when I am lifting it in to the car after a trial. Can't say I find the 4RT any worse than my old Rev3. Given that they seem to sell as many as they make, to the point of apparently a rather bizarre marketing approach in the USA that must reduce sales, I think Honda are to be congratulated on still using a design with so many shared components with the 315. Why have obsolesence if the bike, in absolute terms, is still a very competent machine exceeding the abilities, if not suiting the riding style, of most potential purchasers. And it must be lighter than the Ariels I see being hopped around. Edited January 17, 2017 by 2stroke4stroke 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 59 minutes ago, jimmyl said: A 5 year old Mont is more durable than a 5 day old light 2 stroke - hence better resale value. I'll edit it for you ,cerainly outlast most of there owners by a margin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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