New NorCal TLR200 owner - Q's and US source for trials bits like countershaft clip/spacer sprockets etc

[captain_olives]

First post on this very informative site... so here goes

New Northern California TLR200 Reflex and Beta 250 Techno owner.  Longtime off road rider looking to learn how to go slow!  Picked up two winter projects, a ratty TLR200 Reflex and Beta 250 Techno as winter projects in hopes of picking up some trials skills and attempting some novice competitions with PITS this coming year.

The TLR was going to be just a play bike and something for friends to ride, but as I tear it down and do more reading.... its really grabbed me as a neat little bike.  Especially after seeing all the mods and work done by the folks in Europe (I understand its a slightly different bike). Regardless, its taken priority over the Beta and number of other projects in my shop.  Seems like a suitable mount for a novice like myself to try out a few events in the twin shock class for fun. So its stripped down to its frame in my shop as I freshen everything up on it over the next two months.

Stage one will will just be getting rid of all the rust from it's previous unloved life, freshen up the motor, properly jet it, get it breathing, new rubber, some plastic, controls, rebuilding the wheels, and new drive components.  If I take to it... perhaps next winter it gets a new suspension and more bits from the UK in stage two.

Are there good sources for parts in the US?  Specifically looking for parts like the OEM countershaft circlip and spacer from Honda as seen here at Trail and Trials UK. for when I run the smaller counter shaft sprocket.

What about sprockets?  Some internet digging and I found a steel 10T front from XR's only.  Got a stock  steel 44T from JT.  I assume that may still be too high for a novice like myself and I'll still need to source another larger rear sprocket.  

Is it true that these bike cant run a O Ring chain even if I source the proper spacers and circlip as I read on one thread? Be nice to run the same chain as the rest of my dirt bikes.  

Looks like I will be ordering some plastics from Shedworks in the UK when I return from Baja next month.  I havent seen any other source. Is that correct?

Rim locks?  I am sure this seems like ridiculous questions to some, but I assume folks are running at least one rim lock front and rear on their tubed tires with such low pressure.  I run them in all my offroad bikes front and rear at higher PSI.  Can I assume the same is true of Trials riders with tubes?

Wiriing diagrams of batteryless systems for the TLR?  I plan on just running a small aftermarket headlight and tail light to keep my plate in California.  While I have really looked at the OEM harness in detail yet, its my intention to ditch it and make a new simpler version.  No key, blinkers, hi/low, horn, battery etc.  Just head/tail.brake, and simple bar mounted kill switch. Looks like this has reg/rectifer and a second rectifier under the seat.  Are both nesc?  I dont care about dimming lights with rpm, the lights are just for looks to keep the CA plate.  Didnt see a thread with a diagram... perhaps I missed it.

Anyways, stoked to learn a new riding discipline and work on this really neat little bike.  Thank you in advance for any information or directions on where to look.

Edited January 16, 2017 by captain_olives
typos

[lineaway]

 If you want to learn some skills ride the Techno. Sounds like you want to make a pig look pretty. http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/fun-with-outright-junk.562129/  Here is a pic of one I helped to build. Still a pig.

 

[axulsuv]

Fun little pigs though ....

 

[captain_olives]

Lineaway -  I read that thread over a couple of cocktails.  My stage one build philosophy will be more along the lines of OJ with new fender and some fresh paint.  Perhaps stage two next winter if I find myself really liking the bike beyond a play bike and something to get me started.  Your build and others like it drew me to the TLR.  As you can see, my TLR started from even humbler beginnings than OJ I believe.  Got the bike running reasonably, identified what it needed mechanically, and ordered the parts so they are ready to go when I reassemble her.  Then I started tearing it down to address some rust, corrosion and just kept going....  

 

So I am back to a nice clean, straight, cancer free, and fresh frame in the last pic. Rebuilding the wheels with used components sourced from here and there much like the OJ build.  While it wont be a show build stage one, everything going back on will work as designed, be reconditioned, or replaced with new or used parts.  The only real vanity purchase will be some new fenders.  Got another used tank in better condition and in the process of shaping the foam and covering a new seat over the old pan that was covered in........ denim from an old pair of jeans.  I didnt intend on a project like this when I picked it up, my pride just couldnt let it continue to rot away.  Then I made the mistake of looking at builds like yours and others......  the TLR just jumped in priority for my time. 

I'm really down to just a couple of more new items to order during this stage before reassembling.  Sprockets, circlips, spacers, fenders, and tires.  Looks like you are running a rimlock on the front and rear, am I correct?  I plan on one front and rear when I am done lacing up the wheels.

Any good US based vendors or should I expect to have a few orders from the UK?

Axulsuv....  awesome bike.  I think the peg relocation is going to be a stage two for me. It would be really easy to blow a ton of money on this bike.... but then my primary modern offroad bikes might suffer. 

Feel free to school or scold me if I am approaching this wrong.  

[lineaway]

 Yeah, that was an old pic as that bike now has a proper exhaust. Yes we ran one rim lock in each with a set of Dunlop 803`s. You need a 9t cs or a 48 rear. Lot`s of better parts deals in the UK. http://www.thetwinshockshop.co.uk/parts.php or in motion. There are many others too. Just get a good skid plate as the stocker does not do much good. B and J racing in the states have parts too, but the deals are in the UK for now.

[mcman56]

re there good sources for parts in the US?  Specifically looking for parts like the OEM countershaft circlip and spacer from Honda as seen here at Trail and Trials UK. for when I run the smaller counter shaft sprocket.

As I remember OEM front sprocket had some kind of bolt on retainer but could use a clip. Spacer like the one on the link can be made from the OEM retainer but if you can buy them so much the better.  Bikebandit still had the retainer and some other OEM parts from Honda.  A friend has a Reflex with oring chain and runs a 10 tooth with pvc spacer to keep the chain from sawing into the cases.  A couple of spacers like on the link would be better.  Talon made a 9 tooth but I don't know where you would find one.  I ran 9/ 44 for trials and it was OK.

You will want rim locks even thought the bike has little power.  Even with on rear rim lock, I once spun the tire enough to tear the tube. 

 

[woody]

5 hours ago, captain_olives said:

Axulsuv....  awesome bike.  I think the peg relocation is going to be a stage two for me.

 

The bolt on peg relocation kit is from TY Offroad here in the UK who has been specialising in Honda TLR rebuilds and modifications for a good number of years now. Lots of Honda parts.

 

http://www.tyoffroad.co.uk/

[captain_olives]

Thank you for all the replies and info!  I am sure I'll have more q's as this project progresses.

About 90+% of the all the parts are ready to go, so I should be ready to start reassembling when i return from Baja in February.  Then throw myself like a circus bear on a tricycle at a Sacramento PITS trial event.  Going to be humbling I am sure.

As I already have a new 10T counter sprocket, I guess I need to decide between 48 and 50 rear tooth.  With so little hp on tap with this TLR, cant imagine any harm in a 50T.  Will order a rear sprocket tomorrow with the circlip and spacers from the UK.  Perhaps the fenders too.

I have four oem shocks, three of them seem to have good dampening left.  So will pick the best two and install with oem springs and add a bunch of preload for my svelte middle aged cage.  I need to replace the fork oil and dust seals tomorrow night, will replace with fresh oil as I am at it.  Any secrets to suspension set up on these with the OEM equipment?  My expectations are obviously low, I am sure new shocks etc are better and may come with Stage Two next year.  Tips on optimizing what I have with oil wt, height, air pressure, preload spacers, sag figures? 

I am pretty familiar and adept with tuning/modifying the suspension on my offroad bikes. Havent seen a lot written about thse TLRs, then again there isnt much too them I guess.  But always greatful for any tips that may be available.

Thanks again for everyones help thus far!

Edited January 17, 2017 by captain_olives

[captain_olives]

Thought I should come full circle and post the great info shared by Tlrmark regarding the sprockets, circlips, and spacers in case anyone searching for the same information finds this thread.  The Honda OEM part numbers are

Circlip is   94510-20000 , still available and less then $1 from your local dealer

The splined washer for a spacer is   90461-444-000 , still available and less then $5 from your local dealer.  According to my quick measurement, 3 or 4 should do the job.  

PBI in Oregon has all the front/rear sprockets combo's you could need or want here in the US.  Even the 9T counter sprocket (its listed as an ATC185 sprocket on their website).

I reversed course from the original plan of going with the 10/50 combo.  Going with a 9/13 swappable front combo and the 44 rear.  Had to remind myself that this bikes intended purpose was for new riders visiting to use while learning, me to pop up into the hills behind the house without drawing undue attention, the occasional zip over to the bar or hardware store (keeping a plate with minimal lights attached), AND for me to try out a Trials event as a novice on some easy lines.  Swapping the front sprocket with just a circlip seemed the easier way to accomplish all I was asking of it.... but can always order a 10/50t combo if I or it fail miserably.  Of course there is also that Beta project waiting in the corner if I want to get more serious about trials. Or stage two of the TLR project if this bike continues to hold my obsession.  The custom tanks, aftermarket shocks, lighter wheels etc etc.  Tough to resist.

Thanks again Mark!

Also test fitted a Primary Drive ORH X ring 520 chain (chain I use on all my other offroad bikes).  It does indeed fit, but with very very little clearance.  If you encounter muddy conditions with a high content of gravel or other debris in it, I could easily see how it may potentially cause clearance issues while grinding into the cases.  So to be safe, I just ordered a standard DID non o ring chain for the TLR.  Its already an oddball in the shop... so different will have to be ok.  Didnt obviously test in the real world and maybe the wider chain would have been ok, but didnt look like it to me after measuring closely and figured why risk case damage.     

New fork oil seals and dust guards were installed tonight along with a little surface rust removal from the stanchions.  Thankfully they cleaned up and appear to still be usable without any major nicks.  With all parts acquired or on their way, the project has been tucked away until February when I return from my Moto vacation.  Baja F yeh!  

Anyways, feel like a 7th grader writing about his first "date"!  Getting verbose.  Will start a new thread when reassembly starts.  May not be as epic or entertaining as the OJ build on ADV Rider, but might be useful for others to see a budget trials bike project through the eyes of a newbie grom to the discipline.

Thanks again for all the information.  If folks have any suspension tricks to share with the OEM bits, please let me know.

Edited January 20, 2017 by captain_olives

[brewtus]

My, my, my, a reference to my old hulk OJ in Trials central.  I may have to dig that heap out of the back of the shop and clean it up, maybe even start it.

 

Or not. 

 

Have fun with your build, and don't overthink the mods just yet.  I would say that a good skidplate and peg relocation should be the first mods done, gearing second.  Learn the basics of riding Trials first, (practice with Trials riders, compete, repeat) then worry about modifying the bike to suit your riding style.  

[axulsuv]

And B&J Racing in Tenn. can help you out with bits over here , And that's one I built for my kid ,and as you can see , he doesn't grasp the clean your bike thing real well ... And he hasn't been around or ridden the bike for quite a wee bit now . I should just sell it and make more room for my Fantics....                  Glenn

[brewtus]

+1 on Ginder's (B&J racing).  That's where OJ's skidplate came from.  Good group of guys, we rode with them at the ITSA National in Sipapu last year.