The Natc Pro Class Proposal

[sting32]

Whoo Hoo!!!

Hey Mich, you been teasing us all (on the other board If I recall) for uh um, oh what a year or 2... about the 3 keys to success...

Thank Andy for me, boyz, alowing Michlin back on the boards, and he spilled it right off!!!

[no jive]

Hey Lane I just about cannot stand it any more with your crying like a puppy that you lost your points from the NATC. Maybe everyone on this board does not relize that you did not even ride a section at 4 Nationals in the Pro class.

Did not even attempt a section. Just rode the loop and watched. You even claim you beat the Irish champion who actually rode all the sections. You did not earn those points.

With all of your staments of crying about cheating. Not attempting a section and crying about not getting your points is like a lazy working showing up to work and not working or getting paid.Then complaining.

You have come on this board and stretched the truth about your riding the Nationals. You thought you out smarted the NATC then they out smarted you. What rule is that in the world of Championship riding?

Like you said the Trials riders are honest and will police themselves. Looks like that is what happened. Now you cry that you wont ride Senior 55. If you did would you ride a section? Or would you have a stunt double do it for you?

[bulsher]

Attempting is a requirement?

Edited November 22, 2005 by bulsher

[mich lin]

Ok guys, I've given you the keys to the kingdom, the three rules! Use them with much wisdom.

I've also layed out the principles lacking for Americans to get back on the world championship podium. Leave the NATC program as is or adopt some new programs to provide what's lacking, your choice. Get to work or relax and don't worry!

I'm not married to these proposals, I was simply asked by the head of the NATC to present something capable of turning around the problem of a slumping riding standard in the country without destroying the sportsmen nationals. These 3 proposals would work! The ball is with you guys now,I've done my part once again.

I've given you much, Use it wisely.

Lastly, my Pro points where stripped because of the 10 round rule. Points don't count unless you ride 10 rounds out of the 12 rouunds. My points didn't count, nor did the Irish Champions or Smage's. None of us did 10 rounds. We all rode for nothing, which is a rip to ALL THREE OF US.

Only those who rode 10 or more rounds in the Pro class score points. By those standards, Bernie would not have won most of his US national titles. He would not have been able to attend enough rounds and still do the world championship. Maybe that's why our 8 time national champ has never scored a single world round point? He is put in an impossible position by the NATC?

I rode the nationals for two reasons, one because of the three rules. I believed I could score points, I had a blast and I learned a ton watching and riding with our countries best riders. Second, if you don't enter you can't figure into the results.

Those are the two lessons I successfully passed on to those wise enough to understand them. BE WISE!

[steve fracy]

[alan bechard]

So Lane, have you guys implemented this in ATA or whoever you ride with and how is it working out there?

<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan, could you please think of the "nationals" as you would the playoffs for any other sport, would you not admit the number one seed gets an easy game, VS 12 seed? Yeah, a time or two at some point (give you there are flukes) best 2 teams usually play off for champ, right?

Again, why would everyone think the Club Level riders have to adopt this Nationals policy, local clubs produce usually Expert riders or better, that want or desire to be the cream of the crop competition ALA---> NATIONAL competition. This is not the Novice Riders, never has been AFAIK. Even the Utecups were for Semi expert or above was it not? (been a while for me going to one, and that was as spectator many years ago) yeah a Amature level rider could enter at his own peril...

And much like you have submitted if your kid is likely to compete at nationals in the 125cc class, you'd prolly be having him ride 125cc bikes, NO?

Yeah I can see your pooint, maybe there needs to be a NOVICE "nationals for the rest of us"? Where us novice amature and intermediat/advanced riders ride agains the rest of the country's nov-ama-int riders?

Sorry, but somehow, at this time that is NOT what is being discussed, least I dont think so, when we're talking about the Nationals?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sting

What I was trying to do, was to put it into a perspective that other folks could relate too. Obviously, with you I missed totally.

I am not saying have an amatuer nationals. I am saying put yourself in the place of the people that would be affected and see if you would like riding that format of a trials.

As to your reference to pro sports, there is a progression there to get to the playoffs, last time I checked we do not have to progress through our local ranks to show up and ride a national, let's see, in any class we want, even the pro class. Seems to me that the proponent of this idea was the one that proved that point even though it is somewhat spelled out in the NATC rules.

[mich lin]

Alan using your progression to the playoffs concept is a good one. Something everyone can relate to if they watch pro sports. We simply don't have that now with only 5 US riders in the Pro ranks.

American trials is not what it used to be! When I worked for Bultaco we sold more Sherpas per year than all the current trials bikes brands do combined. Then if you added, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki Ossa, Montesa and a few Italian and British bikes the world wide market was much bigger for trials than today.

You have to decide what you want to get out of the sport as an individual rider. Especally since the sport is a shadow of what it used to be. For me I had a training program all mapped out and a program that I'd planned to follow for future nationals, useing the 3 rules!

I planned to train in the gym and on the bike everyday, with the goal of getting through one Pro section if I could. Of course I would have to train like mad to pull that goal off. Then I'd be able to watch and observe the best we have, learn from them, scope out the competition in my age group and then come back and contest the sportsmen 55 class next season.

After winning the 55 class, I planned to work with the American youth riders including my son. Build a team and give everything we had toward building another American world champ.

That plan worked for me! It was very personal and motivated me to do the work I needed to get in shape. Since the NATC called and told me I could not ride at the back east nationals I've not been on the bike a single time. I'm not even sure If Daniel, Debbie, Rebecca and I will even continue in with the sport. I simply can't find the motivation and enthusiasm to do the work required to compete.

For me as an individual, riding the Pro class was a goal I needed. I needed to watch, train and learn. What I learned is that the rug is pulled out from under riders dreams by the NATC system. But hey I knew that before but had simply forgotten or maybe hoped things had changed in USA trials.

They have not, that's why we have not produced another American who can score world rounds points or win a world title. The question simply remains, will the NATC change to allow riders to dream again?

[mich lin]

Let me just say in closing. Each individual must dig really deep to compete at Championship trials. What each individual finds for that motivation is very personal. We should not judge other people's motivations or expect them to be excited over what excites somebody else.

What keeps Geoff going is very differnt than say a Gary Hoover. What motivates you or me is also differnt. What brings success to any sport is when it can motivate a lot of different people to take it up.

What harm was there in me chasing after the personal goal of trying to get through one Pro section? So what if I ended up National Number Seven in the Pro class for the year, what harm did it do?

Instead, consider the loss of another family dropping out of the sport. Consider the loss of a past national champion who has been lucky enough to score world championship points not being around to mentor and sponsor American youngsters. Consider the loss of a trainer that wrote the book that finally revealed the secrets of championship trials to the general public for the first time. Consider the loss of another American world Champion "Debbie" not being around to mentor American girls.

All because the national organizing body refused to approve of a differnt style of training and motivation! I don't believe they did this out of spite or by design! They simply have dug themselves into a rut, boxed the sport in and created an atmosphere where riders of any age can no longer chase their dreams.

[pa.]

The Beave has a point, he just missed the mark.

Having followed this thread and read all the comments, remembering I have never been to any National in the USA and being in Australia I may also be missing the mark.

Seven riders in the National Championship is not going to attract a lot of interest from Spectators and in turn Sponsors. People want to see action and that can not be provided by a small number of riders that you have contesting the Nationals.

Point 1.

Introducing a 125cc Class for the Youth Championship is a must if the USA want to get their riders to the top. Having your top young riders on 250cc plus at home then expecting them to compete in Europe on a 125 is going to limit their results and waste some of their training time in Europe whilst they learn to ride a 125.

Point 2.

Lane's plan included riders competing over an graduated easier course in the morning then stepping up to a higher level in the afternoon. (He stole this idea from the Women's World Championship, which works very well.) The bad point of Lane's plan which is the same as the World Championship is the riders who miss the "Cut" are forced to sit out the rest of the day.

What if the sections for the morning are set to allow more riders to compete thus creating more interest in the Championship then in the afternoon the top group say 10 riders step up and then ride a harder line whilst the riders who missed the "Cut" still ride the same lines as they did in the first session. This would allow the spectators to see continual riding which is what they have come to see and give the best riders a higher challenge that they need to strive for. The top 10 riders making the "Cut" would take places 1 to 10 with the remainder of the field taking the placing's after them.

This would allow all riders to compete the full trial an allow the best most capable riders to compete at a higher level to further improve themselves and give the up and coming riders the chance to participate at a prestigious event and gain the experience that will drive them onto becoming a top rider.

Peter

[mich lin]

Peter, your right I did steal the idea from the women's world championship! You didn't have to blow my cover did you? Say what are you doing on our accross the pond page anyway? The Pacific is not considered a pond is it?

Your 100% right that youth riders HAVE to be on 125cc bikes to ever hope to compete with the EU riders at the WCT.

Just to clear up the proposal for everyone, the finals would be bonus sections on and above the full course that everyone now rides. We have used this system successfully for 30 years at the El Trial De Espana. It works great and I was very surprised to see it adopted at the ladies world championship but it makes sense.

I think the mistake made in this proposal on my part was the suggestion of dropping the high school class in favor of a 125cc class. Next year I'm resubmitting these proposals with everyones suggestions and imput. Next time I'm requesting a whole new class allowing the NATC to keep both their new grade school class and the high school class.

Peter, by the way, are you the Aussi that I owe the beer?

[pa.]

Peter, by the way, are you the Aussi that I owe the beer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes from the TdN in 03. I was going to buy you a beer too.

[mich lin]

That was a great place for a TDN for sure Peter. It's hard to beat Northern Italy.

Sorry, about that beer, I was hoping to dodge you and wait for a better exhange rate another year. The trick is on me, our dollar has fallen like a rock and that beer is now going to cost me even more.

Beave

[alan bechard]

So now you want to further subdivide a class that just got divided this year?

I am assuming that there will be an age limit on the 125 class and they will be riding sportsman lines in your proposal?

Come on folks, how far do you want to slice this pie down too????? Whats next, we have a 125 left hand kickstart and 125 right hand kick start but we allow 175 Scorpa's in on the line because they are 4 strokes?

And this builds competiton and drives us towards a world Championship?

So Lane, as you like to remind us of Bernie all the time, was this the line of progression that he took to greatness? I am off to grab Bernie's book and look for those 125 shots.

Ohhh,, and on edit, I forgot, we have somewhat of a progression to the playoffs now, it is a requirement that you ride at least Advanced class in your local club prior to riding the Nationals. It is just that some folks in thier own interest tend to overlook this rule when signing up for nationals.

Edited November 25, 2005 by Alan Bechard

[city trials]

how far do you want to slice this pie down too?

It's thanksgiving, let's eat the whole pie.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[mich lin]

Alan, I'm just being flexable, I'd rather not slice the pie even thinner but that appears to be what the NATC wants, so I'm willing to compromise.

Actually you guys have given me several ideas already for next years proposals, Thanks, you guys have helped a bunch.