axulsuv Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Do2 , gotta give you that one , applies to more than just vehicles ! Life in general these days ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 I would agree as well, most people don't buy what they need and I myself am an example of that. I want a Montesa 300RR but in reality I will likely never used it to its fullest capacity. But at lest I would look cool riding it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 On 03/03/2017 at 11:53 PM, dadof2 said: 2 stoke use on road is in decline due to emissions laws. The side valve engine is not used because it has poor volumetric and scavenging characteristics particularly as revs increase. A side valve engine has very good low speed torque and a linear power curve, Laws in UK restrict car maximum on road speed to 70mph yet nearly every car on the road can exceed this by a large amount. If a manufacturer produced a side valve engined car it could be cheap and have excellent driving characteristics at all legal speeds but it probably would not sell because of the way in which most people perceive vehicles with a low maximum speed. Very frequently people buy what the perceive they need, not necessarily what would be best for their purpose. Why would a side valve engine be cheaper to produce than a mass market engine already in production and with proven reliability and performance, particularily as you say people dont buy what they need. So why would average joe buy a less powerful poorly accelerating, possibly unreliable side valve, and which manufacturer would even chance it? Another idea confined to " @dadof2 silly theories" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 Every "mass market engine" starts off as a niche market engine. If the niche engine proves to be what the buyers want, it becomes a mass market engine. In the world of high volume cars, the current trend is to small capacity, turbocharged direct injection (stratified charge) petrol engines. My present car has just such an engine which has the same fuel economy and performance as my previous diesel, along with far better refinement and presumably less NOx and particulate emissions. No engine in a trials bike is "mass market". If a side-valve engine proved to perform better in this unique application, the specialist engine manufacturer could readily develop such an engine at sensible cost. I would like to think that trials bike customers would make a more rational buying decision than the average car buyer, and would happily accept an engine that shares certain characteristics with an Austin 7 and a Ford Pop in order to get the performance benefit. It would still require a degree of marketing on the part of the bike manufacturers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 5, 2017 Report Share Posted March 5, 2017 A degree of marketing? What like if this pig can fly youll need a 1/4r of a ford pop for trials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted March 6, 2017 Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 Nigel, I'm afraid I have totally failed to understand your metaphor(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Really? Do they have pigs in Somerset? Edited March 7, 2017 by nigel dabster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) On 3/6/2017 at 1:56 AM, nigel dabster said: A degree of marketing? What like if this pig can fly youll need a 1/4r of a ford pop for trials? I'll have a go at interpreting these metaphors from the other side of the earth "A degree of marketing?" = writer is indicating in a sarcastic manner that they would attribute a low probability of being able to convince potential buyers about the benefits of buying a side-valve trials bike "What like if this pig can fly you'll need a 1/4r of a ford pop for trials?" = If this unlikely concept were to succeed in the market, then potential buyers would need to believe that it was a good thing for a trials bike to have similar engine characteristics as an obsolete British road car or van that had a four-cylinder side-valve petrol engine Edited March 8, 2017 by feetupfun improvement 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 21 hours ago, feetupfun said: I'll have a go at interpreting these metaphors from the other side of the earth "A degree of marketing?" = writer is indicating in a sarcastic manner that they would attribute a low probability of being able to convince potential buyers about the benefits of buying a side-valve trials bike "What like if this pig can fly you'll need a 1/4r of a ford pop for trials?" = If this unlikely concept were to succeed in the market, then potential buyers would need to believe that it was a good thing for a trials bike to have similar engine characteristics as an obsolete British road car or van that had a four-cylinder side-valve petrol engine I love you @feetupfun I'm glad someone could explain, I cba. The schools in somerset are obviously not as good as the ones in Aus. As for the few out there that were run in the past by the catholic church for orphans best not mention that perhaps..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Having a dig at one of the finest counties in England is a bit rich coming from someone who lives in the land of roundabouts and concrete cows. So, getting back to the point: trials bike manufacturers seem to have no problem in persuading us to buy engines operating on the "obsolete" two-stroke cycle. Therefore there should be no problem is persuading us onto an "obsolete" valve arrangement if the design were shown to have technical merit for the very particular application of trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 hours ago, trapezeartist said: Having a dig at one of the finest counties in England is a bit rich coming from someone who lives in the land of roundabouts and concrete cows. So, getting back to the point: trials bike manufacturers seem to have no problem in persuading us to buy engines operating on the "obsolete" two-stroke cycle. Therefore there should be no problem is persuading us onto an "obsolete" valve arrangement if the design were shown to have technical merit for the very particular application of trials. if the design were any good gas gas when they couldve wouldve. No one is gonna make it or buy it - suck it up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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