nigel dabster Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 04/02/2017 at 0:25 AM, dadof2 said: My post has nothing to do with an agenda. Had Dabs never entered the SSDT the question would not have arisen. It is his withdrawal at this stage that is puzzling. He clearly had the intention to ride. My question is still valid - is the decision entirely Dabs or is there significant Gasgas influence? It is clear that all the main WTC teams take the same view - the disbenefits of the SSDT outweigh the benefits. Rather than entering a true A team with all the expense and risks some enter a "B" team. If it does well its good advertising, if mechanical failure puts them out it is much less visible than having a top factory rider drop out. In answer to your first question - Gasgas have probably never had an A team failure at the SSDT because they have never entered a true A team with their top WTC riders. Your question isnt valid at all as the only person who can answer it is James himself, and hes got a lot less time for idiots than I have. Ypu state you havnt singled out gas gas then you do is that not a simple definition of hidden agenda?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 06/02/2017 at 8:58 PM, huski said: He is Gasgas no1 rider,they justifiably want him to have his best chance at world level so he needs as much time as possible on WTC type terrain,also acclimatising to the higher temperatures found at most WTC events.SSDT is a very different thing,he can come back to it if he wants when his WTC career ends "they justifiably want him etc" It seems I am not the only one pondering if the decision was entirely JDs. A general comment - One function of forums such as TC is to illicit speculation and try to find answers, its a pity some don't realise this and resort to insults and accusations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 On 06/02/2017 at 5:38 PM, on it said: dadof 2 the ssdt is not a part of wtc so why would wtc teams be sent ? .As for none of modern bikes are ideal for the ssdt what are you on !!!!?. SO no OLD bike ever seized. got dirt in carb & ignnition failed ? So according to YOU it would be better ride a old bike in preference to a modern light weight bike ? You are saying no modern bike is ideal for the ssdt so why & how do they finish the event ? So what experience of the ssdt do you have & on what bikes Manufacturers should send teams to prove the reliability of their bikes. Modern bikes ideal - look at the list of checks / changes suggested by the factory / importer mechanics prior to recent SSDTs. A decent comfortable seat, adequate radiator and mudguard sizes would be useful for a start. Old bikes had similar problems but the increased complexity and "squeezed in tight" construction of modern bikes makes faults harder to diagnose and fix in the field, especially within the SSDTs time constraints. Note another posters comments on the 1981 Bultaco rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Squeezed in tight construction? 4 bolts , one jubilee clip and the entire air filter / rear mudguard comes off a scorpa / sherco / gas gas, allowing easy access to the carb. One more bolt and the fuel tank is removed so you can remove the plug. Total time 5 mins if you have never used a hex tool previously. Can you elaborate please @dadof2 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 8 hours ago, dadof2 said: Manufacturers should send teams to prove the reliability of their bikes. Modern bikes ideal - look at the list of checks / changes suggested by the factory / importer mechanics prior to recent SSDTs. A decent comfortable seat, adequate radiator and mudguard sizes would be useful for a start. Old bikes had similar problems but the increased complexity and "squeezed in tight" construction of modern bikes makes faults harder to diagnose and fix in the field, especially within the SSDTs time constraints. Note another posters comments on the 1981 Bultaco rider. Why should manufacturers send teams @dadof2 @dadof 2? Cos you think it a good idea? We know and love the SSDT but as a worldwide diminishing sport on more and more enclosed in size of terrain available and numbers participating bikes have evolved into the size lightness and shape they are. Not many agree with your opinion on this or else the parc ferme at the Fort would be full of long ride seats bigger gaurds and rads. Its not. Youre wrong. Again. Squeezed in tight? I know my 2017 gasser is easier to work on than my 82 340 whatever you say. Who could argue with the reliability of the 4rt, some riders barely touch them all week and they are probably the most complex and squeezed in tight bike ive ever owned. stop being a luddite ffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 9 hours ago, dadof2 said: "they justifiably want him etc" It seems I am not the only one pondering if the decision was entirely JDs. A general comment - One function of forums such as TC is to illicit speculation and try to find answers, its a pity some don't realise this and resort to insults and accusations. Ponder all you want, but in the name of finding answers if you dont get the one you want accept it, or at least make an objective comment for a change, rather than bending things to suit your pov?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 04/02/2017 at 6:59 AM, baldilocks said: @nigel dabsterArguing with an idiot is pointless. It's like playing a pigeon at chess. No matter how good you are it's still going to crap on the board and strut around like it's won. nuff said @baldilocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 10 hours ago, dadof2 said: Manufacturers should send teams to prove the reliability of their bikes. Modern bikes ideal - look at the list of checks / changes suggested by the factory / importer mechanics prior to recent SSDTs. A decent comfortable seat, adequate radiator and mudguard sizes would be useful for a start. Old bikes had similar problems but the increased complexity and "squeezed in tight" construction of modern bikes makes faults harder to diagnose and fix in the field, especially within the SSDTs time constraints. Note another posters comments on the 1981 Bultaco rider. dadof2 do teams not get sent due to the cost ?If teams find world rounds tight on cash would they go to the ssdt . Plenty of people ride the bikes so will it really help sales . As for the check lists should a lot of that not be done and not just for ssdt ? im doing my beta now or that put out because a lot of riders do not know how to prepare a bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted February 11, 2017 Report Share Posted February 11, 2017 Yes it would be good if the factory riders were there again I was lucky enough to ride the years that they were there? As for using the SSDT as a test bed for bikes why should they? Most trials bikes are used for the club trial 4 to 5 hours of riding, one tank of fuel and rarely using the top two gears, occasionally people venture into road based trials 6 or 7 hours of riding still a single day and the top gear used? So the factories build a bike for this need light, small fuel tank, low geared etc. etc as this is the biggest market? Why oh why would they want to focus on a Six Day Trial and in all fairness all modern bikes cope well in the right hands. I mentioned small tanks in the 80's the rules stated for the SSDT that your bike should be capable of doing 35 miles to enable you to get to fuel checks with 4 checks most days the Thursday having 5 checks.. Today's trial the checks are c18miles more checks needed with 7 on the Thursday. Maybe the factory's should make all their bikes with 5 litre tanks just in case they enter the Scottish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 gizza5 I pretty well agree with all your sentiments in previous post. Getting a bit off topic here but condensing trials bike history into a sentence as follows. Trials started as a means of improving road bikes / every day use bikes whereas now they are single purpose WTC replicas. What is is, and I can't change that but i know trials bikes were more attractive to a larger number of people when they were more multi purpose. When I consider the group of people I now ride with the reason they have trials bikes is to ride trials or play on practice sections. In the 1970s / 80 the group I practiced with had them for many different reasons (farming, commuting, green laning etc) several never rode a single trial but some days or evenings we would do runs of even over 80 miles and comfortably get between filling stations. We also had reasonable working lights, legal speedos etc. I know of 2 major Northern trial where organisers have taken them entirely off road to avoid bike legality problems and although I have not spoken to the organisers of other trials who have done the same I am fairly sure bike legality / suitability has been a factor in their decision. If a manufacturers return to the SSDT gave us suitable bikes and restored some of the longer traditional trials. Before anyone posts an argumentative response please bear in mind I am not claiming I am right and others are wrong. The current sport is what it is. Its just my opinion based on the eras of the sport in which I have taken part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 7 hours ago, dadof2 said: gizza5 I pretty well agree with all your sentiments in previous post. Getting a bit off topic here but condensing trials bike history into a sentence as follows. Trials started as a means of improving road bikes / every day use bikes whereas now they are single purpose WTC replicas. What is is, and I can't change that but i know trials bikes were more attractive to a larger number of people when they were more multi purpose. When I consider the group of people I now ride with the reason they have trials bikes is to ride trials or play on practice sections. In the 1970s / 80 the group I practiced with had them for many different reasons (farming, commuting, green laning etc) several never rode a single trial but some days or evenings we would do runs of even over 80 miles and comfortably get between filling stations. We also had reasonable working lights, legal speedos etc. I know of 2 major Northern trial where organisers have taken them entirely off road to avoid bike legality problems and although I have not spoken to the organisers of other trials who have done the same I am fairly sure bike legality / suitability has been a factor in their decision. If a manufacturers return to the SSDT gave us suitable bikes and restored some of the longer traditional trials. Before anyone posts an argumentative response please bear in mind I am not claiming I am right and others are wrong. The current sport is what it is. Its just my opinion based on the eras of the sport in which I have taken part. As a schoolboy I rode a TY 175 from 13 onwards Then when I was 17 - I needed wheels to get to college, so put all lights back on and speedo, it was already registered and got it mot'd Put some L plates on it and rode to college for 2 years, a daily round trip of 36 miles, winter & summer Bike never missed a beat and never touched the engine, even on same rings from when brand new when sold at 10 years old TY 175 a real all rounder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Used to go to work on a Suzuli RL don't really fancy doing the rounds on the Ossa. Fact is things are worse now than they were 40 years ago from Mars Bars to Presidents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 it.s about time the WTC organisation realise that most punters attach little relevance to thier series , it,s nice to watch a circus or a show but It has very little to do with my purchasing decisions or the day to day organisation of events for punters. maybe the manufacturers should do thier own marketing and research?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I've always felt it was a circus, particularly the indoor stuff but a circus none the less as it has no bearing on what the normal punter can achieve. At least in WSB or Moto GP the normal punter can ride the very same circuit as the top guys or even the IOM TT, but WTC.....impressive but a circus none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhuskys Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, cabby said: I've always felt it was a circus, particularly the indoor stuff but a circus none the less as it has no bearing on what the normal punter can achieve. At least in WSB or Moto GP the normal punter can ride the very same circuit as the top guys or even the IOM TT, but WTC.....impressive but a circus none the less. Apples and oranges there..... Road racing is speed based and trials is technical riding. A normal punter lapping Assen at a fraction of the speed of Marquez isn't the same thing either.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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