Making trials safer ...?

[turbofurball]

Following on from the "Trials the safest sport"  thread, what practical stuff would be a good idea to progress safety for riders, observers, and spectators?

Over time having public liability insurance, handlebar pads, and helmets have all been easy and sensible things to have ... how about making sure there's a qualified first-aider at events (and everyone knows who it is), or requiring all bikes to have lanyard kill switches?  What else?

[2stroke4stroke]

I really don't think we need to be imposing unnecessary rules upon ourselves and creating a rod for our own back.  World round stuff might warrant some measures but the sort of stuff most of us ride is still as safe as ever it was.

Lanyards?  I could see the point where bikes are being launched skyward as part of the section with people standing round ie world and national champs but most of us don't do that.  I haven't had a problem with a stuck throttle since the invention of the right angled twistgrip nearly forty years ago. I'm not about to break in to a fully sealed ignition/wiring system that is not intended to be tampered with on one of my bikes for a negligible risk like that.

Don't "progress" what doesn't need it is my opinion.

[faussy]

I agree with the above comment, however solid discs and sprockets were well overdue IMO. I still think more could be done to minimise fingers in chains, especially after the amount of people losing fingers and thumbs in motorcross. The only other safety equipment ive seen creeping in lately is the full face helmet. I've never had a facial injury (touch wood) but know of people who have and still ride with an open face. I think full face helmets would detract a lot from trials, but so do most safety rules when they are first brought in. Should we be wearing mouth guards like boxers and rugby players?

I also see a lot of older riders riding in competitions with no gloves, and even some new kids. I may be starting to come across as a mini hitler here, but surely wearing even the basics of safety equipment is a must, and something ive never seen enforced. My point is, if you cant enforce people to wear gloves at club level, surely you cant enforce much more

Edited March 9, 2017 by faussy

[turbofurball]

47 minutes ago, 2stroke4stroke said:

... I'm not about to break in to a fully sealed ignition/wiring system that is not intended to be tampered with on one of my bikes for a negligible risk like that.

I dunno about that, I like lanyards simply because I don't want my bike to carry on running when on it's side (which happened to me twice before I fitted one, the second time petrol was leaking out from the tank) ... fitting a lanyard is the same as a regular kill switch, it takes about 5 minutes and a basic one costs £3.50 on ebay

[smokey125]

IMO there are three areas you can look at bikes, rider/kit and organisational.

Changes to bike requirements can be quite difficult to implement on the range of different bikes people ride. Think pre 65 ridged right through to current bikes.

Lanyards seem like a reasonably idea, and keeping the above in mind not difficult to retrofit to older machines. The only other thing I can think of is some sort of disc that fits to the spokes to stop you getting caught in them, but to be honest I see that causing more problems than it fixes.

I can’t see any real improvements that can be made to rider’s kit. I don’t think boots offer any more or less protection now than they did 20 years ago, make them any stiffer than they are now and they will become too stiff to use. Helmets have come on massively and are now at a point where they are on a par with other branches of the sport. The only possible change here could be to add a chin bar like a motocross helmet, I’m not convinced by the effectiveness of this, the only time I got hit in the face was by the mastercylinder, it slid in just below the peak of the helmet a chin bar wouldn’t have stopped this. The only other thing would be some sort of back protector.

The biggest difficulty with organisational changes is making them standard across all clubs if you don’t it will tend to cause confusion. How many riders actually read instruction or listen to briefings? Having a standard sign or marking denoting the area you go to for help or to report an accident is about the most you could do.

Medical training is a difficult one and to be honest almost impossible for a club to keep up to date with. When I look at how little our first aiders are allowed to do at work before its take the person to hospital or call for an ambulance. I don’t think there is a real benefit of clubs trying to get/keep someone trained. I think totalshell’s suggestion of notifying the local ambulance service is about the best you can do.

I can understand the comments about not fixing what isn’t broken but if something happens and the insurance companies take a hit their reactive measures will be much worse than trying to be proactive.

[elusivemite]

44 minutes ago, faussy said:

I agree with the above comment, however solid discs and sprockets were well overdue IMO. I still think more could be done to minimise fingers in chains, especially after the amount of people losing fingers and thumbs in motorcross. The only other safety equipment ive seen creeping in lately is the full face helmet. I've never had a facial injury (touch wood) but know of people who have and still ride with an open face. I think full face helmets would detract a lot from trials, but so do most safety rules when they are first brought in. Should we be wearing mouth guards like boxers and rugby players?

I also see a lot of older riders riding in competitions with no gloves, and even some new kids. I may be starting to come across as a mini hitler here, but surely wearing even the basics of safety equipment is a must, and something ive never seen enforced. My point is, if you cant enforce people to wear gloves at club level, surely you cant enforce much more

I don't wear gloves. Don't like the reduced sensitivity and I find better grip barehanded. Also wearing gloves while riding aggravates my tendonitis and arm pump.  What injury exactly is a pair of Lycra or similar gloves going to afford me.  I'm a carpenter/builder my hand are like old leather. 

To answer the op. Section layout is key to safety. See some sections especially on the expert routes that leave little margin for error. 

[stpauls]

3 hours ago, turbofurball said:

Following on from the "Trials the safest sport"  thread, what practical stuff would be a good idea to progress safety for riders, observers, and spectators?

Over time having public liability insurance, handlebar pads, and helmets have all been easy and sensible things to have ... how about making sure there's a qualified first-aider at events (and everyone knows who it is), or requiring all bikes to have lanyard kill switches?  What else?

A qualified First Aid person should be essential at all trials events.

I am surprised that is not part of the conditions of the insurance cover for trials events..

[cleanorbust]

2 hours ago, faussy said:

I agree with the above comment, however solid discs and sprockets were well overdue IMO. I still think more could be done to minimise fingers in chains, especially after the amount of people losing fingers and thumbs in motorcross. The only other safety equipment ive seen creeping in lately is the full face helmet. I've never had a facial injury (touch wood) but know of people who have and still ride with an open face. I think full face helmets would detract a lot from trials, but so do most safety rules when they are first brought in. Should we be wearing mouth guards like boxers and rugby players?

I also see a lot of older riders riding in competitions with no gloves, and even some new kids. I may be starting to come across as a mini hitler here, but surely wearing even the basics of safety equipment is a must, and something ive never seen enforced. My point is, if you cant enforce people to wear gloves at club level, surely you cant enforce much more

Only the rules are enforced. And, for clothing, that means only helmets.

[totty79]

Personally I'd like to see staggered section starts, or something similar. I'm not comfortable riding a section while loads of people are walking it, seems an unnecessary risk.

[cornishtwinspring]

Isnt riding a trial a voluntary exercise???? if theres something you don't like or think is too dangerous then don't do it.... Please don't turn the sport into a Nanny State... Work 6days a week is bad enough now, couldn't stand sunday morns listening to a "method statement" before doing something I & thousands of others have been doing for donkeys years in blissful unawareness to the dangers involved!!!!!!!!

[cleanorbust]

No worries, totty79, trials riders have an innate ability to hop out of the way, even at the last minute. The prompt of "mind yer back" works well.

Edited March 9, 2017 by cleanorbust

[cleanorbust]

1 minute ago, cornishtwinspring said:

Isnt riding a trial a voluntary exercise???? if theres something you don't like or think is too dangerous then don't do it.... Please don't turn the sport into a Nanny State... Work 6days a week is bad enough now, couldn't stand sunday morns listening to a "method statement" before doing something I & thousands of others have been doing for donkeys years in blissful unawareness to the dangers involved!!!!!!!!

I do agree with the principle that deciding to do a particular activity includes acceptance of the risk to self, to the extent that if I want others to mitigate that risk I'll ask them.

[totty79]

1 hour ago, cleanorbust said:

No worries, totty79, trials riders have an innate ability to hop out of the way, even at the last minute. The prompt of "mind yer back" works well.

Works for some, but I have had to miss gates and I've also crashed to avoid walkers and I've only done 3 trials.

[rabie]

as someone who organises a lot of MX and enduro, the sliding scale of relatively safer trials is compared to these others is truly staggering

they way i would pose the question, is what sort of injury stats are we getting? knowing various high up in the ACU, i'm not ware of any statical trend in trials in a particular area that would cause one to ask for a solution

i mentioned lanyards on the other thread as its something that is happening slowly (all youth, several British championship classes and now almost all sidecars), but i can't say organisers that we are experiencing problems that would cause one to say lanyards are the solution

similarly full face helmets, gloves, solid discs, designated first aiders etc would imply that there is a problem that needs solving

 

now as organisers and/or sanctioning bodies/federations we can improve best practice, offer better officials training, first aid training, risk assessment skills, etc to help, maybe technical official training for trials and enduro to improve technical control to ensure these bike specific measures are being enforced.

 

but show us where the problem is then lets come up with a solution, rather than have a solution looking for a problem

[cornishtwinspring]

31 minutes ago, totty79 said:

Works for some, but I have had to miss gates and I've also crashed to avoid walkers and I've only done 3 trials.

Don't be shy, shout loud enough & they will move , & if they don't then your perfectly entitled to claim a baulk to the observer & have a re run.