djr_austin Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 A brief history for your diagnostic pleasure: - Its a 4 month old 2017 4RT, been ridden plenty, but like new - no knocks or damage - running the right transmission oil - The clutch has always felt odd to me - really on and off - but I put it down to new bike, newby on trials - Recently it became wildly erratic - super jumpy, sometime won't engage, then its back - The engagement point seems to move around then suddenly it won't engage at all - Thinking it must be an air problem I've bled the system three times, the last bottoms up, not a bubble - Stock MC looks fine, no leaks, don't see any cable leaks TTF is going on! Does this sound like a symptom you've seen before? Can you help? Do I need to take it back to the dealer? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauls320 Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 I think these hondas have six months warranty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) The 4RT clutch has never been good. But what you are describing sounds more like the seal is bad in the M/C. Get a rebuild kit And pull apart. Check the seal for damage clean out the bore and replace. This happens far too often. Ps. Also you need to maintain enough free play in the piston travel to let it work. Edited April 29, 2017 by lineaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 The last time I let someone work on my own bike under warranty was in 1975 when I was sponsored and it was there bike. Far easier to spend the thirty bucks, have it mailed to your kome and fix it yourself. That is the way to learn about your bike. Besides in the USA it comes as a race bike. No warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Check your lever adjustment. Hydraulic brakes and clutches are "self adjusting" The reservoir on the top of the master cylinder has a hole that goes down into the end of the master cylinder. This hole keeps the system full of fluid and allows excess fluid caused by thermal expansion to bleed back up into the reservoir so there is zero static pressure when the lever is released. It's quite common for new riders to adjust their levers in so far that the hole never gets open. This causes pressure to build up in the hydraulic system as the fluid heats. For brakes this can cause them to drag generating more heat which heats the fluid more and eventually causes the brakes to stick. For the clutch the fluid heats up and the static pressure acts like pulling in the lever just a bit and more as the fluid heats up more. Look at your levers and make sure the piston in the master cylinders is returning all the way to the stop. It shouldn't be limited by the adjustment screw. If it is back out the screw that sets the resting position of the lever. Oh and welcome to the sport. This is just the first of many frustrations but you'll still love it. Edited April 29, 2017 by dan williams 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted April 29, 2017 Report Share Posted April 29, 2017 I know a bit and still come on here asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Regardless of warranty or not there has to be grounds for the dealer to sort things if a brand new motor vehicle has a clutch that does not work properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauls320 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Take it back to the dealer you bought it from explain the problem you had since you bought it new and see if they can sort your issue out...You bought a new bike so you did'nt have to mess with it , Right? Most shops are pretty good about taking care of their customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbk Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 take it to dealer regardless, check radiator water level if she gets hot she wont shift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 On 29 April 2017 at 5:02 AM, djr_austin said: A brief history for your diagnostic pleasure: - Its a 4 month old 2017 4RT, been ridden plenty, but like new - no knocks or damage - running the right transmission oil - The clutch has always felt odd to me - really on and off - but I put it down to new bike, newby on trials - Recently it became wildly erratic - super jumpy, sometime won't engage, then its back - The engagement point seems to move around then suddenly it won't engage at all - Thinking it must be an air problem I've bled the system three times, the last bottoms up, not a bubble - Stock MC looks fine, no leaks, don't see any cable leaks TTF is going on! Does this sound like a symptom you've seen before? Can you help? Do I need to take it back to the dealer? Thanks This may be the stupidest thing I've said on TC(Which is quite an achivement) I assume you're aware the Transmission and engine oil are seperate on these Tractors and are not getting them mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 (edited) Have you have the first service oil changes done on both the engine and transmission oil? The last time I had a bit of what you described all I had to do was change the oil and everything went back to normal. Other than that I have had lever adjustments that where wrong on new bikes (well new to me) cause issues like this and as you indicated systems that needed to be flushed and re-bled, however you have done this. Good luck! Edited April 30, 2017 by jonnyc21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djr_austin Posted May 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Thanks for all the feedback. I did take it back to the dealer and they said there was a white sludge in the M/C - looked mike it was mixed with water. They cleanded and flushed with DOT 4 and it was back. For a single ride only!! It then started back again!! I'm confident I've got he oils right - newbie here but got that down. One thought. Could it be that I need to use a higher grade brake fluid ? Otherwise, its going back to the dealer again - bloody annoying as I want to right the dam thing not cart it back and forth to the shop! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 19, 2017 Report Share Posted May 19, 2017 Being a Honda dealer in Texas , the chances of them having any spares is slim and none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyc21 Posted May 20, 2017 Report Share Posted May 20, 2017 Sounds like you might need some more work on the M/C if that fixed it but it didn't stay fixed. Seeing that it didn't stay fixed I would at least give them a call and see what they say... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) You say “they said there was a white sludge in the M/C - looked like it was mixed with water.” If they did a thorough flush the problem should not repeat. For water to get back into the system it would have to get past a seal somehow. Do you ride through deep water? If there is a bad seal or loose fitting on the slave cylinder, water could be drawn back into the system when you let off the pressure on the lever. Are you using a pressure washer to clean the bike? They can force water past oil seals on the slave or the master cylinder. Edited May 22, 2017 by thats_a_five 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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