Acu Rule Tsr22a, Stop Is A 1 Etc

[atomant]

Whats stopping me from making my own rules for a club trial?

[scorpa3]

Nothing stops you from making your own rules for a trial providing (for ACU events) your rules do not contravene the 'sporting code' of the ACU.

eg If in your regs it states 'riders must do the first lap of the trial on foot carrying an egg on a spoon.' Then that is what happens.

[Andy]

eg If in your regs it states 'riders must do the first lap of the trial on foot carrying an egg on a spoon.' Then that is what happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So THAT'S how Kinell won on Saturday!

[kinell]

eg If in your regs it states 'riders must do the first lap of the trial on foot carrying an egg on a spoon.' Then that is what happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So THAT'S how Kinell won on Saturday!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aye, carry on having your little digs - I'm still basking in the glory so I don't care

[Andy]

Aye, carry on having your little digs - I'm still basking in the glory so I don't care 

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Got a call from Jake - Dougie wants a signed photo.

[desperado]

I feel bikespace is heading in the right direction with his comments. Trials is all about observing a riders skill at controlling a motorcycle over rough terrain. The kids love the hoping, skipping etc and it is great to watch. Going backwards is a skill. How many people can remember Jarvis at Hawkstone on the Scorpa a few years ago. Top of an awseome climb, throttle cable breaks and goes back down, backwards, total control, feet up talking to Rat at the bottom !

Whichever way we go lets do something, get in written down with no grey areas and all enjoy our Sundays without the constant nagging problem of 'unfair' observing.

[timp]

Saw the 2005 world review dvd. Like watching paint dry.

Without timing in sections it would be a farce so how can it work in 90% of trials in this country.

I don't think observers would like it. Most seem to like the rule we have now (stop is a 1)

What do club trials do in spain etc. Have they had to time the sections?

I hardly hear any moaning about rules nowadays so leave it as it is.

But if I had to make a choice then its no stop for me.

After all the FIM will probably go full no stop eventually when they have tried everything else.

Mark T

[scorpa3]

Saw the 2005 world review dvd. Like watching paint dry.

Without timing in sections it would be a farce so how can it work in 90% of trials in this country.

I don't think observers would like it. Most seem to like the rule we have now (stop is a 1)

What do club trials do in spain etc. Have they had to time the sections?

I hardly hear any moaning about rules nowadays so leave it as it is.

But if I had to make a choice then its no stop for me.

After all the FIM will probably go full no stop eventually when they have tried everything else.

          Mark T

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

here here!!

[as iow]

I think the no stop rule would be OK for all Expert or A route riders but would be unfair on the C/D class lads or novices who often stop sat down with their feet on the ground to sort themselfs out.

We like to encourage the newcom'er to the sport, and giving them a five everytime they stop in a section would soon put them off.

[john collins]

Am quite enjoying this debate - although the post by Elvis concerned me a little! I have always tried to keep an open mind on marking system - often believing we have used it to beat ourselves over the head with instead of just letting the vast majority - who probably do not really care a toss - and are quiote happy riding or organising week in week out.

I will not express too many of my thoughts - yet- but would ask you to remember that the marking for Brit Champ Trials is on Agenda for forthcomming BC meeting - so those who Organise/ride etc will have their say.

Going back to the posts - this really sums it up - just have a look at the diversity of replies - and some have already forseen the problems. If you were to count as a sort of vote each post I believe you would be hard pressed to see an easy solution -we can all analyse the problem - but each solution creates some more?

There is also quite a lot of comment about how riders are being severly disadvantaged? - perhaps we need to look at some numbers here and see how many are actualluy being affected? as opposed to how many gain by riding the same system in BC as they do week in week out?

Of course everyone would probably prefer 1 marking system - but the problem is they always want it to be theirs?

There can be no doubt that (shall we say more mature?) riders who enjoyed the days of full No-Stop prefer this system. Please remember that technology has also moved on - and whilst stopping say a Bultaco or Pre -65 and balancing for a bit was not that realistic - with modern bikes it is a lot easier.

Also take into account that in some areas the reduction of available land - meant smaller pocket handkerchief type courses ,often without nice natural stream beds etc and tighter - up a bank and round a stick type sections started to prevail a litte- most of us older riders do not like this - but it is no good pretrending it did not/ does not exist.

I cannot see any logic in any argument that say's " We only want one system" - but then go on to say it should be FIM , or TSR 22 etc.

It is also rather absurd to expect all those - (granted mostly Twinshock/Pre-65 , Scottish etc) who are more than happy with Full No-stop to change - it is just not going to happen.

So - if you want 1 system only - it would have to be Full No-Stop - all other discussuion at present can be rather futile - but it is not a fair argument for those who have and enjoy Full No-Stop to demand 1 system only as a means of forcing everyone on to theirs.

At present Full No-Stop does nowt to help those who ride FIM, UEM etc and very little for the thousands of riders who for years now have been quite happy with TSR 22 ( addopted remember to fall into line with FIM when they abondonded the hopping and the bopping)

So - without a return to Full No-Stop - which I thought the FIM may have done ( watch the video clip with Dougie, uji and Amos on TC) - we will certainly be left with at least 2 systems - and possibly 3.

The realistic options are:

Full No-Stop for all trials - great if FIM did same - but not going to happen at present

TSR 22 & No-Stop - as is - including the Brit Champ

TSR 22 or No-Stop as is for all otherevents - but FIM for Brit Solo Champ.

Whichever option we choose is a no -win situation really. If we stay as we are for BC - for sure young riders do not ride under FIM format in Brit Champ - which is a stepping stone for them may be disadvantaged - not sure that the degree iof this is not exagerated?

If we change to FIM - more Observers or at least Timekeepers are needed - and the bit that bother me most - there may well be an increase in severity in some sections.

The argument that is is easy to find personnel at World level so why not at home - is not really valid - it is a different situation. Clubs who are struggling to find Observers now - will not find extra guys running to them offering to hold a watch. Also we all know the difficulty of finding Observers ( or at least we should) - to pee them all off is for me the worst case scenario.

Incidentally I have got someone enquiring as to the feasibility of producing some small cheap electronic type timers - ie press button - and say 2 mins later a buzzer sounds. This would allow Observer to time without looking at watch etc? Perhaps some clever electronic wizard out there could advice?

The important thing - and this is essential is that any altering of present marking system does not balls things up for the week in week out events which we all enjoy.

I see enough problems on the horizon with land access etc wiothout making more of our own - so there is no easy solution - and certainly not a lot to be gained to try to make everyone jump onto an FIM waggon that is far from that stable anyway.

Finally - is there anyone out there who is actually convince that the present FIM system is now set is stone and not likely to change for say 5 yrears?

[Andy]

Incidentally I have got someone enquiring as to the feasibility of producing some small cheap electronic type timers - ie press button - and say 2 mins later a buzzer sounds. This would allow Observer to time without looking at watch etc?  Perhaps some clever electronic wizard out there could advice?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean like these?

[scorpa3]

Wow thats cool! Network to the secretaries lap top, then onto the web site for instant access via spectators mobile phones. Brilliant!

Even better, riders can then have head up displays on their helmets to see their positon in the event.

Seriously, what a good tool. This would be ideal for our National which requires the observer to communicate with the punch card marker at the end of the section.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Does the yellow extension cord lead to a 5000 watt generator buzzing away at the back of a tree.

If so which poor bugger is going to cart it to the top of the mountain, only to find he forgot the five gallon gas can.

All this extra expence and work for a few people who would argue the fact the electronic button was pressed before the front axle crossed the start line.

The truth is the FIM doesn't know what next seasons rules will be.

Motorcycle trials is nothing like world championship trials, the more you try and make the two the same, the result will be less participation in both.

[stuartc]

Incidentally I have got someone enquiring as to the feasibility of producing some small cheap electronic type timers - ie press button - and say 2 mins later a buzzer sounds. This would allow Observer to time without looking at watch etc?  Perhaps some clever electronic wizard out there could advice?

A programmable stopwatch with alarm does the job.

And under

[perce]

.

The truth is the FIM doesn't know what next seasons rules will be.

Motorcycle trials is nothing like world championship trials, the more you try and make the two the same, the result will be less participation in both.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Ish, let the circus also know as the World Championship do what they like & let the rest of us ride no stop. Make the rules straight forward & the riders will come.