Pre 65/classic training.

[dabbist]

Hi all, does anybody know of someone running specifically pre 65 or classic trials courses?

I've heard lots of good reports of Mick Andrews training, but having searched the web I can't find anywhere to book.

[collyolly]

What difference to the training are you expecting ? They are still motorbikes with standard controls in fact some are better set up and easier to ride than 80's / 90's bikes.

[ttspud]

I am afraid that collyolly is describing what pre65 has become in that the vast majority of pre65 machines entered into competitive pre65 trials are not pre65 at all and in all honesty have driven out all but a handful of the genuine machines.  If you plan on riding the modern pre65 machines, as collyolly said, then there is no difference from them and a modern bike in terms of riding and controls.  

However, if you do want to ride a pre65 machine then yes, it is an entirely different animal altogether.

Starting at the beginning, you have a magneto for ignition which has an advance/retard setting lever which gets adjusted depending on what type of section you are in and also between sections to avoid overheating the engine.  Simply put, if you need to rev it up, then you need to advance the ignition.

Next you have the valve lift lever.  Some riders will use the valve lift for descending steep hills as it is a softer mechanism than brakes and means that you are less likely to cause a slide/skid which then becomes difficult to get out of.

Next, your ground clearance will be poor.  Combined with the weight, mine for example is 40kg above the modern pre65 machines it competes against, you will have to ride carefully to avoid grounding the bike.  If you do, you are going to need both feet down to lift the bike, or if you are unlucky and hit at any speed, especially downhill, you will be ejected over the handlebars instead.

Next, the engine.  One characteristic of the AJS engine that I have is it has a slight delay between twisting the throttle and the engine picking up revs.  Given the bike is very heavy and that that creates a certain momentum, you must adjust the way you shift your weight to account for the delay.  The second engine characteristic is that the engine will stall going downhill if you are not careful.  Perhaps another reason for using the valve lift going downhill is that you naturally then re-start the engine when you let it go again thus avoiding the engine stall issue.

Next is momentum.  On a modern/modern pre65 machine, you can stop and start at will and at any place in a section whether on a hill or not.  Not so with a proper pre65 machine.  If you stop, there is moisture and any sort of incline, you can often forget going forwards again.  In other words, you need to create the momentum before you hit the slope and keep it going smoothly all the way up.

Next the pure heft of such bikes makes all aspects more difficult and needing more effort as compared to modern pre65 bikes.  Simply holding a line needs much more effort and planning since you cannot just expect to correct everything easily given the weight in the bike.

Lastly I would say that because the proper pre65 bikes are so different and so much harder than the modern or modern pre65 machine, that there is a certain extra satisfaction to be had in getting them through even the easiest courses and perhaps also by experiencing riding the same heavy bikes in the shoes of our ancestors.  Plus they always sound better and everyone likes seeing them.

Regarding finding a course, there are now so few riders actually riding genuine pre65 machines in the competitive classes, that you may find it difficult to actually find a course on how to ride them.  If you do actually want to ride a proper pre65 bike then you probably would be best off going to one of the events that actually have them and talking through the techniques there.  In my experience, the best place to try out a proper machine might be in the clubman course of the Talmag where you will find the most of them anywhere plus the course will be set out for proper pre65 machines rather than the modern pre65 bikes and you will have riders there that are easy to approach and offer you some advice.

Hope that helps a bit.  Good luck with it.

[dabbist]

Thanks chaps.

To my mind TTSpud is spot on, and I'm halfway in between.

I've ridden old British bikes, since they were just old bikes, so I'm comfortable with manual advance and decompressers etc. 

I actually have a Cub (so not a proper heavyweight) which does have electronic ignition, but is otherwise very much a cub i.e. unmolested forks and frame and stock engine except for the oil pump.

I also have a Beta Rev3 200 and can certainly vouch that they're totally different animals.

I've done a couple of sessions of modern training (on the beta) which has helped, but from the small amount of time I've spent on pre65, certainly doesn't read across in all cases. Weight and the performance of the forks seem to be the biggest difference to me.

Taking the Cub on a modern training course I would expect to be quite disruptive, as we'd rapidly hit the point where I'd be struggling to do stuff that everybody else was mastering. I tested that point by putting a very experienced modern and twinshock rider on the Cub, and he was extremely shocked at the difference.

I have joined a "classic" club and now have some contact details for Mick Andrews, so hopefully can start making some noticeable progress.

Thanks again for the replies.