Type approval

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

Just read it, and it is machines over 125,cc.NEW.

I have just had this problem with an imported machine, that I need on the road for Charity work.

I think we will be OK with older machines for a while but they may shut the door on us later,

Who knows what will happen when we leave the EU?

I bet there will be rules put into place to stop Classic bikes later, being used on the road? 

That is the way the governing bodies are  going.

Anything to stop our sport on a Sunday morning when the maJority need to get out on their cycles and block the highway's,  and country lanes of Britain.

And these and Horses go Free!! Two Strokes contaminate the air we breath,you know.

Hi Andrew Morpeth.

If you look at my web site you would know that I work with both cycles and Horses, Big Time. 

What I am saying is that you have to be flavour of the month in this World and Trials bikes are for some reason not that flavour, and our heritage has been forgotten, and even been given up by the body that runs the sport AC-U , so we stand little chance of being seen as a special case has far as regulations are concerned.

If ABS come into play this would mean only New Trial bikes  2018, would be fit for the road regulations, if abs is fitted to them?

Regards Charlie.

Edited August 20, 2017 by charlie prescott
To Answer Question

[jimmyl]

On 18/08/2017 at 11:51 PM, trapezeartist said:

Seems a good idea to me. Have you ever seen one trying to stop on wet cobbles? 

Steering needed first on our neddy.

He can stop and go no problem just not necessarily in the direction or speed you had in mind?

On a serious note we are slipping very quickly into a total nanny state. If you want safety devices surely market forces should alllow you to buy what you want!!

.

 

[2stroke4stroke]

Lopez, this is the next lot, and stripping off will render the machine non-type approved and therefore not allowed on the road.

Edited August 20, 2017 by 2stroke4stroke

[dadof2]

On 18/08/2017 at 3:33 PM, turbofurball said:

Why keep looking back instead of forward?

 

ABS on a road legal electric trials bike could be removed after sale (or just switched off, as needs require)

The capital cost and complexity of ABS would add at least £1000 to the average bike. A new ABS pump alone for most cars costs between £1200 and £1500.

[dadof2]

Britain is a wonderful country, generally hard working, inventive and kind people. Unfortunately this great nation is all too often dragged down by politicians, bureaucrats and do gooders.

Well done Donald Trump for standing up to those who seek to destroy that nations heritage by pulling down statues etc.

[turbofurball]

10 hours ago, dadof2 said:

The capital cost and complexity of ABS would add at least £1000 to the average bike. A new ABS pump alone for most cars costs between £1200 and £1500.

At that point manufacturers will probably split the line into road legal and "competition only", like the Honda CRFs etc, and those who want to do things like the SSDT will have to shell out extra or run old bikes.  TBH this sounds exactly like the complaining that was done when helmets became mandatory.

 

10 hours ago, dadof2 said:

Well done Donald Trump for standing up to those who seek to destroy that nations heritage by pulling down statues etc.

Ah yes, the heritage of erecting statues 50 years after a war, to traitors no less - definitely worth standing up for.

[baldilocks]

Does this legislation apply from next year if it is passed ? 

[2stroke4stroke]

It already has been passed, it's an EU Regulation.  The Government is consulting on how it is implemented, ie our chance to have a say and perhaps get the undesirable aspects ameliorated a bit.  Speak now or forever hold thy peace, as the saying goes.  

[nigel dabster]

On 18/08/2017 at 0:01 AM, dadof2 said:

This is a very good reason for quitting the EU. Once we are out it will be far easier for the UK government make appropriate changes .

This "one size fits all" approach the EU has must be about as stupid as you can get.

@dadof2 Utter bolloxxs again the uk government has no idea what trials or trials on the road are so why should the differentiate?

If you think leaving the EU will have any effect on this law as far as trials bikes are concerned you're probably more stupid than I thought

[nigel dabster]

On 21/08/2017 at 0:41 AM, dadof2 said:

Britain is a wonderful country, generally hard working, inventive and kind people. Unfortunately this great nation is all too often dragged down by politicians, bureaucrats and do gooders.

Well done Donald Trump for standing up to those who seek to destroy that nations heritage by pulling down statues etc.

So go to the USA if trump is so wonderful? If he grabs your wife by the pussy you'll say well done?

[dadof2]

Nigel - You ought to remember Chad Evans before you start posting unsubstantiated allegations

If it is right for Americans to attempt to hide their history by pulling down statues, perhaps we should bulldoze Hadrians wall in case it reminds English citizens of being enslaved by the Romans, or christians of being fed to the lions, or chopped up by gladiators. History is what it is, right or wrong it should not be destroyed or hidden.

Will no longer being part of the EU make getting laws changed easier? As long as we are members it is nigh on impossible. Had we not been members of the EU we would not have the present extremely complicated and restrictive motorcycle license system.

Compulsory ABS and the helmet law are not really comparable. Prior to the compulsory wearing of helmets there were a very large number of easily avoidable horrific injuries that were very costly to the NHS and many of the head injuries subsequently required many years or lifelong intensive care. Wearing a helmet that cost less than £5 was a very simple solution. The benefits of ABS on motorcycles are much more marginal. ABS would make very little or no difference to most motorcycle accidents, It may also worsen some. Consider the following. A car pulls out in front of an ABS motorcycle on a slippy road. The rider grabs the brakes and the ABS cuts in and the motorcycle hardly slows down before hitting the car upright. The riders groin and thighs slam into the tank and handlebars and his head whips down and forward, slamming into the car. Then the rear of the bike pivots up ejecting the rider over the car. The first impact probably caused several fractures. After being flung through the air the already fractured rider hits the road and the fractured sharp bone ends rive about inside the flesh, causing horrendous internal injuries. Now consider the same incident on a NON ABS bike. The rider slams on the brakes and the bike skids out from under him, he falls a short distance to the ground. Both bike and rider scrub off a useful amount of speed before hitting the car and suffer only one impact. In a lot of motorcycle accidents the rider never even gets the brakes on or the accident is caused by excess corner speed, in both instances ABS makes no difference, Still think spending a lot of money on ABS is worthwhile? The money would be far better spent on compulsory eye tests and diesel leakage monitoring / prevention. I have ridden large capacity motorcycles for well over 30 years (both ABS and non ABS) and have never had an accident for which I was to blame. In one instance (mud on the road) ABS may have prevented me dropping the bike, but had I not dropped the bike I would almost certainly have run wide into parked cars, as it was I just slid up the road with a scuffed elbow.

[turbofurball]

A bike braking with ABS stops far far quicker than any scenario where a bike and rider are sliding along the ground, regardless of road and weather conditions.  ABS prevents or mitigates a large number of accidents, both in cars and on motorbikes (it especially improves outcomes for heavy braking in corners); on fast road bikes traction control also makes a significant improvement.

When helmets became compulsory there was a LOT of complaining - their arguments were very similar to yours.

By the way, did I mention my day job is being a crash tester?

Also, in what way would removing Confederate statues that were put up after the war had ended erase history?  How many statues of Hitler has Germany put up since the second world war?  Have they forgotten about him?  Lets have more statues dedicated to the brave soldiers and slaves who fought against the Confederacy instead - that would be historical.

[baldilocks]

Don't feed the troll.....

[turbofurball]

Good point

[dadof2]

On 24/08/2017 at 10:36 AM, turbofurball said:

A bike braking with ABS stops far far quicker than any scenario where a bike and rider are sliding along the ground, regardless of road and weather conditions.

On 24/08/2017 at 10:36 AM, turbofurball said:

 

That may be correct most of the time but I do not believe it is the case on ice or diesel + water. Some time ago me and some friends compared bikes with traction control to bikes without. Accelerating on wet grass the bikes with traction control won 9 times out of 10, so yes electronics can outperform a human. When buying my first bike with ABS I made the judgement that it was worth paying the extra £1,900 (compared to to the non ABS version) even if it saved just one crash. In 20 years riding ABS bikes I have never had the ABS activate. I have had a few near misses:

1) Diesel on a roundabout, about 25mph. The ABS failed to activate despite both wheels sliding when the brakes were applied. It was only my strength that kept the bike upright.

2) Articulated lorry changed lane and cut me up - had I braked I would have been run over by the trailer wheels

3) Slid on corner, some oil and a bare steel (all the grit worn off) BT manway. Never even got the brakes on. Again it was my strength and MX experience that prevented a crash.

As mentioned previously I have ridden road bikes for many years as have my friends and acquaintances. Among this group there has been many accidents and a couple of fatalities. From what I know of these and my own incidents ABS would not have made any difference (traction control may have prevented one fatality). In all but one of these incidents the helmets (judging by the marks on them) greatly reduced or totally prevented head injury. I am not saying ABS / TCS / CBS should not be an available option especially on large capacity road bikes, but to make it compulsory on all bike over 125cc is not justified.

There is also circumstantial evidence especially among young car drivers that ABS and air bags only results in them gaining more confidence and driving faster, meaning that when they do have an accident it is faster and more serious. The see friends have a crash at say 50mph then because of modern bodyshells and airbags, they walk away from a total write off and laugh about it. This gives them a sense of invincibility that often ends with devastating consequences for pedestrians or other road users.

As most people who have had motorcycle crashes will tell you, a fall with the wheels locked and a slide along the road is far preferable to a crash with the bike vertical or a "highside".

I know of a crash (Yamaha FJ) where the rider braked on diesel at about 30mph and the ABS operated. When the bike reached the end of the diesel spill it was still doing about 20 to 25 mph. The sudden regain of grip by the front wheel cause a wobble / him to slip on the bike and he went over the front. He was unhurt but the damage to the bike was over £4,000.

Remember the people proposing these rules are the same twits that panicked about CO2 and encouraged the move to more hazardous diesels. Politicians and bureaucrats have a very strange sense of priority / relative risk, why all the effort to eradicate smoking when alcohol and unhealthy food does far more harm to far more people?

Regarding statues to Hitler - Perhaps they should have them in most german cities and explain what he stood for and did. Many german school leavers have no knowledge of the Holocaust for example.