motosolex Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 0:47 AM, oldaz said: Got some more done over the last couple days. Completed the kick start settings/clearances and timing, repaired the case damage from kick start over-travel and tidied up where the chain had hacked the side of the case, fitted the new seals and bearings, modified the oil drain and assembled the two engine halves. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to reassemble. When the kick start timing is correct and the lever is in the right place, the mechanism is quite good and it becomes difficult to over travel the shaft and cause the damage - there's even enough room to get a thin metal plate on the side of the damaged casing web. Pictures show the aluminium patch on the kick side and the JB Weld on the flywheel side. I veed both sides of the hole in the case web, screwed the patch in place, then completely filled the hole made by the kick start shaft stop. Now when the timing cover and gasket goes back on there shouldn't be any water ingress into the magneto. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the ignition on one of these? I won't be running lights, so only need the ignition circuit. Excellent repair. Thinking ahead when we begin to reassemble the engine, can you please describe what you accomplished in “kick start timing”. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 Hard to envisage unless you have the parts laid out in front of you. For want of better terminology you have the shaft, end spacers, circlip, spring, inner and outer ratchet sections (what I call the outer one is the one with the ramp on the side of it - also the spring goes in it) the "keeper" that is held into the case and the inner and outer bushes - the inner one is in the blind hole in the crankcase half. I believe the first thing to do is set the shaft in the outer bush and rotate it so the stop is about 1 to 1.5mm from the case web (where the damage is) and clearly mark where the kick lever goes - it should be one spline past BDC when the shaft is in this position. Reasons for doing this are that it's very difficult to kick the lever any further past BDC and it helps to ensure the lever is in the right position when it's in the home position - it can be difficult to decide if the home position is exactly 1 o'clock or maybe 5 past 1, which could cause damage all over again. You need some end float when it's finally assembled (about 1mm should be enough) or the mechanism will tend to stick and be hard to return to home. There's only one spacer shown each end on the drawing I have, but I believe there should be a second one on the outer end so there's one each side of the circlip, otherwise the spring fouls on the circlip or the circlip bears against the bush. Make sure the inner bush is pristine, because the spigot end of the shaft only goes part of the way into the bush and it will self destruct over time - I made a new replacement out of good quality brass and cut a small oil gallery into it as it's much stronger than the oilite type original. The outer ratchet section must go on the shaft spline so the flat part of the ramp (not the wedge section) is held by the keeper. You will notice the keeper can be rotated and locked in place by the nut, so set it as close to the wedge as possible - if you're looking at the head of it, set it as far clockwise as possible. Like I said, hard to explain unless you actually have all the bits in front of you. By using this set up the ratchet will engage cleanly in the first position so you get a positive engagement as early as possible and because the kick lever can go slightly past BDC there's minimal tendency to over-stroke and damage the case. I used the OE spacer on the outside with a second one about 1mm thick between the circlip and spring, making sure it fits into the top recess of the outer ratchet section - this spacer bears against the circlip and the spring, adding slightly more tension to the spring and also keeping the spring square to the shaft and bearing evenly. Due to the design short-comings you can't use a thin spacer on the inner end, even though it would be much stronger as the spigot would go full depth into the inner bush, so you're stuck with the 4mm (approx) spacer there. It wouldn't have taken much extra development to have a longer shaft. Also when you fit the new bushes, put the shaft in, temporarily put the crankcases together, then put the side cover on and make sure the shaft doesn't foul in the side cover, I had to relieve mine slightly to ensure I had a good return - the lever spring would have done the job, but a bit of crud in there would have made it difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Slow going due to other priorities, but I manage to keep chipping away at it - with the power unit back in the frame I've managed to complete the clutch set-up, complete the timing side, fit chain, overhaul and fit carburetor, throttle cable done, single wire for coil works, chain tensioner works, kill switch wired in and then started to fit the air box. Rear mudguard was too far forwards at the front edge (if you've been following, the mount was missing, so I guesstimated where the new one should be) to allow the air box to fit in, so back wheel out and mudguard off, make up and fit new front bracket extension, modify mudguard to suit and put it all back together. Have to get new stainless clamps to mount air box, then I can move on to exhaust. The exhaust poses a few problems, not the least being the damaged clamp nut and most of the thread is missing from the barrel - another challenge ahead. The Ulf Karlssen stickers for the tank/seat unit just arrived so the end is now in sight - still have to repair the fibreglass and re-paint though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldaz said: Slow going due to other priorities, but I manage to keep chipping away at it - with the power unit back in the frame I've managed to complete the clutch set-up, complete the timing side, fit chain, overhaul and fit carburetor, throttle cable done, single wire for coil works, chain tensioner works, kill switch wired in and then started to fit the air box. Rear mudguard was too far forwards at the front edge (if you've been following, the mount was missing, so I guesstimated where the new one should be) to allow the air box to fit in, so back wheel out and mudguard off, make up and fit new front bracket extension, modify mudguard to suit and put it all back together. Have to get new stainless clamps to mount air box, then I can move on to exhaust. The exhaust poses a few problems, not the least being the damaged clamp nut and most of the thread is missing from the barrel - another challenge ahead. The Ulf Karlssen stickers for the tank/seat unit just arrived so the end is now in sight - still have to repair the fibreglass and re-paint though. Great work! Turning our attention now to the clutch basket while out crank and cylinder are being reworked can you let us know how you removed the discs from the Outer geared set from Disk Set? Any pointers and things to look out for? thank you kindly. Edited February 20, 2018 by motosolex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 I made a new pusher, did some work on the lever arrangement and refurbished the 3 leg pusher, but I didn't strip the basket as it looked good. That said, your clutch looks different to mine in the way it's assembled and it doesn't appear to have the little anti-rattle springs around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Hi fellows. Any advice on removing the 349's spring retaining pins (i think PN 0263.11305) on the outside of the plates so as to disassemble the clutch for inspection? Also, any specs on plate wear? Thank you Edited February 21, 2018 by motosolex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Like I said earlier, I haven't worked on other Montesa models, but it looks to me like there's pins coming through the basket from the inside and being held in place by those small, maybe 3mm pins that locate into the cover. I assume the clutch pressure springs are on those same pins, so I would look at maybe compressing the clutch and take out those 3mm pins, then the cover should come off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Thank you Oldaz. Something is really odd on mine. I can't get the clutch to be pressed in to to release tention so as to pull out the pins which would allow me to remove the plates. That is why I was asking about removing the retainer springs on the outside of the basket. When we got the bike the clutch was already removed so not sure what its condition is. It seems really dirty and maybe corroded. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 Maybe start a new topic and ask about the 349 clutch? There are others who should know more about it. Those springs look like a later version of ant-rattle springs and I don't think they will make much difference to what you want to achieve. Remember the clutch lever puts a huge pressure to release it, you have the lever at the handlebar ratio multiplied by the lever at the outside of the gearbox, then the tiny lever inside the case, so lots of pressure needed. You might be able to set a strong bar across the plate with a clamp each end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 42 minutes ago, oldaz said: Maybe start a new topic and ask about the 349 clutch? There are others who should know more about it. Those springs look like a later version of ant-rattle springs and I don't think they will make much difference to what you want to achieve. Remember the clutch lever puts a huge pressure to release it, you have the lever at the handlebar ratio multiplied by the lever at the outside of the gearbox, then the tiny lever inside the case, so lots of pressure needed. You might be able to set a strong bar across the plate with a clamp each end? Will do thanks Thank you Oldaz. Something is really odd on mine. I can't get the clutch to be pressed in to to release tention so as to pull out the pins which would allow me to remove the plates. That is why I was asking about removing the retainer springs on the outside of the basket. When we got the bike the clutch was already removed so not sure what its condition is. It seems really dirty and maybe corroded. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 Hi Oldaz. As the motor is being worked on in the shop we are turning our attention to the clutch and frame. I got the clutch apart. Looks ok but its bearing is being replaced. Can you do me a huge favor and take some pictures of the front hubs? The bike came in parts and we are unsure of the collar and washer locations. We have a speedo too. That would be great. And thank you. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 hours ago, motosolex said: The bike came in parts and we are unsure of the collar and washer locations. We have a speedo too. Do you have the parallel or tapered hub? The positioning of the spacers will generally only work one way to centralise the wheel. With the speedo drive in place - if it's same as 247 with 3 tabs holding it - the spacers will be similar both sides. If you have stepped spacers the larger diameter goes against the forks. Inside the hub is usually a stepped sleeve carrying the wheel bearings, then a seal on the brake side that matches to the boss on the backing plate. I'm told if you use fully sealed bearings you don't need the extra seal, but I used it anyway. If you don't use the speedo drive, you'll have to make a wider spacer for that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 21 hours ago, oldaz said: Do you have the parallel or tapered hub? The positioning of the spacers will generally only work one way to centralise the wheel. With the speedo drive in place - if it's same as 247 with 3 tabs holding it - the spacers will be similar both sides. If you have stepped spacers the larger diameter goes against the forks. Inside the hub is usually a stepped sleeve carrying the wheel bearings, then a seal on the brake side that matches to the boss on the backing plate. I'm told if you use fully sealed bearings you don't need the extra seal, but I used it anyway. If you don't use the speedo drive, you'll have to make a wider spacer for that side. Here’s what we have in the picture. Not sure of the fitment order since bike arrived in parts. We believe we may be missing something. In the photo the speedo tangs’ plate is backwards. The spacer in question we are unsure of its proper location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldaz Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Looks like same wheel as mine, I still have the speedo drive and associated bits in the shop, so I'll have a look when I'm there later today. The flat and spring washers in the last picture look like the originals for the outside of the front axle. Axle nuts go on left (brake) side of bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosolex Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldaz said: Looks like same wheel as mine, I still have the speedo drive and associated bits in the shop, so I'll have a look when I'm there later today. The flat and spring washers in the last picture look like the originals for the outside of the front axle. Axle nuts go on left (brake) side of bike. Thank you. The spring and flat washer are for sure for the left side of the hub. Look forward to your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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