Where are all the entries????

[haysy]

I agree with everything baldilocks says above, I dont think anyone on here is out to cause offence. It does surprise me that 5 out of 6 of you failed to finish though, was this purely to do with the severity of the sections?

Allowing adults to ride the conducted course sounds like an excellent idea though. 

[john b]

29 minutes ago, baldilocks said:

@totty79 the part of that post I like is @on it pointing out that if you make the easy course easier again then the sections will be less difficult than actually getting to the sections. 

I think @john b s idea of an adult conducted course can help here. I've helped a couple of new starters in their 40s and it's much  harder to learn later in life as we are much more risk averse.

But if we think in terms of a ski school then the conducted course will also develop as a social group which provides encouragement. It then becomes a separate group in the trial and people move to the easy route when comfortable.

What venues did you ride first @totty79 ? Was it an easy / beginner trial or a centre trial with an easy course ? Two different things called the same which doesn't help either.

I really think the conducted beginners conducted would help. 4 or 5 experienced riders, set the sections out as you go, everyone walks them then rides them ........( the same as the kids do, but don't tell anyone) ride with the kids and happy days..... 

Just needs some organisation - I'm not a good rider but an experienced rider. I'm at at least 2 trials a month in north east so would throw my hat in the ring ....I'm sure other experienced riders would enjoy it......

i agree with Glen, the social aspect of all beginners together would also be good.

food for thought ...... If we can get 20 riders a year to take it up..... And continue.... Then maybe entries will rise

cheers

john

[maco]

John, do you think you would get many to take part? Whenever Weardale runs a Saturday trial & has a Very easy course isn't it 95 or even 100% kids on Osets riding it? 

To many people are worried about what others think of them, so could possibly stay away from doing a conducted because it's associated with kids. 

Going back to what Glen was saying about trying to get people to progress, instead of the Green course for half clubman half expert. How about something for the easy course which allows them to ride half the clubman? At least that way you can build your confidence up bit by bit eventually progressing onto riding fully clubman level. 

Not sure if this is something already been applied else where, but it's not in the North east. 

[baldilocks]

Maco I'm trying to suggest the same thing but just by having more sections per lap. Then you can have 4/5 sections of different severity and it's a better day out. More courses could more confusion for riders and observers. 

[cub200]

I don't know you baldilocks but you have mentioned a couple of times in your posts that we need more sections and therefore more observers, more trainers to conduct beginners sessions.

Are you a rider, club official or just a commentator, because you might advise us how to find and encourage all these new helpers, that you suggest, into the sport !

I honestly think from reading all the posts so far our sport will fade away in the next 10 years from lack of youngsters coming in, plus over exuberant section severity and we will be left with a bunch of old farts (like me) running twinshock, air cooled mono's, pre 2000 mono's, pre 2015 mono's and a few pre 65's, events.

Am I being pessimistic or realistic ? 

Edited September 2, 2017 by cub200

[baldilocks]

12 minutes ago, cub200 said:

I don't know you baldilocks but you have mentioned a couple of times in your posts that we need more sections and therefore more observers, more trainers to conduct beginners sessions.

Are you a rider, club official or just a commentator, because you might advise us how to find and encourage all these new helpers, that you suggest, into the sport !

I honestly think from reading all the posts so far our sport will fade away in the next 10 years from lack of youngsters coming in, plus over exuberant section severity and we will be left with a bunch of old farts (like me) running twinshock, air cooled mono's, pre 2000 mono's, pre 2015 mono's and a few pre 65's, events.

Am I being pessimistic or realistic ? 

I'm a rider , club official , commentator, I've tried to train some new starters over the years and Ive also given up my ride numerous times to observe. 

I disagree with you on section severity. It's sometimes too hard but it's unfair to say it's always too hard. 

Sure some of the things I've mentioned will take effort, I'm not suggesting otherwise but I don't want trials to die off.

Whats your contribution to our sport ?

 

[cub200]

Fair enough question, here goes,  rider, organiser, official, rode in the Midland centre from 1962 - 1980 when I emigrated to Australia. Started the Sutton Town MCC with a few other guys and have been laying out hundreds of sections ever since in both UK and Aussie.

Rode for the MTCQ and LRMTC over here from 1981 and then started an unaffilliated club, SQTA in 2007 with 4 other guys and now ride Classics and Twinshocks only. I've done every club officials job from scrutineer to President and have been a level 3 official for Motorcycling Queensland who are the governing body of affilliated sport over here, I'm still setting sections at 71 years of age.

I rode in the Manx 2 day Classsic in 2013 & 2015 and planning to do it again in 2018 ( anyone got a Cub to loan to a careful rider ????)

I didn't say sections are always too hard, they are very often, but it also needs to be judged against the going in between sections as well.

We are on the same wavelength insofar as the organisers are getting older and don't have the time, money or energy to do what we used to do, the question is how to encourage the younger guys to step up.   

[b40rt]

7 hours ago, cub200 said:

I don't know you baldilocks but you have mentioned a couple of times in your posts that we need more sections and therefore more observers, more trainers to conduct beginners sessions.

Are you a rider, club official or just a commentator, because you might advise us how to find and encourage all these new helpers, that you suggest, into the sport !

I honestly think from reading all the posts so far our sport will fade away in the next 10 years from lack of youngsters coming in, plus over exuberant section severity and we will be left with a bunch of old farts (like me) running twinshock, air cooled mono's, pre 2000 mono's, pre 2015 mono's and a few pre 65's, events.

Am I being pessimistic or realistic ? 

Just a little background info. I do know Baldilocks/Glen, he is a long time enthusiast with good intentions who does contribute to the sport. Trials run in his area are usually very good and well supported. 

[totty79]

@baldilocks

I've only done the easy route on centre trials, and I agree having two different things with the same name doesn't help.

After all this time I don't recall venues, only the crashes. For anyone wanting to see what first timers stuggle with it would be best to follow one around. I can recall that the route chosen between sections  was more hazardous than the sections, there's been several threads about this.

[totty79]

14 hours ago, on it said:

 were do i say your a crap rider ? are the sections to tight to long ,not enough time to do them see THATS what feed back we need if there are no new riders coming into the sport the sport will die what dose a new rider want to  ride dose not matter what section you put on someone will find it hard (all i was trying to point out what i see is happening at trials and how to improve things)

 

Your post clearly has a mocking tone e.g. what did you expect a ride across a flat field

Myself and many others have posted about new starter difficulties on many other threads, and its not hard to find a new starter at a trial and to check their experience on the day. All this info is already out there.

For most new starters safety is the concern not difficulty, no one expects it to be easy, and between sections is often a bigger concern than the sections. They do not expect for example drop offs on steep hills with a barbed wire fence at the bottom. I still don't select things to practise based on difficulty, I pick them based on what could go wrong.

[haysy]

When marking a section out I, whenever possible, try and flag the easy course wide but incorporate the clubman route within it. That way riders have the option of riding around the harder part or having a go at it. Often the easier line is the direct one over the bigger rock rather than try and ride around it.

This then gives people the option to try the harder parts if they want. This also works with the clubman and expert routes.

 

[cabby]

16 hours ago, haysy said:

 It does surprise me that 5 out of 6 of you failed to finish though,

Why would that surprise you ?? I can't recall many first timers finishing a trial in my last 6/7 years, usually takes them at least 3 possibly 4 trials til they get their first finish. 

[haysy]

I was just curious to know if it was down to section severity or the going in between? I honestly dont think that the sections in the NE are of a severity to prevent anyone finishing but maybe Im over estimating peoples abilities.Depending on the venue the going can be difficult if its wet and boggy and I can understand that people with little off road experience would find it hard, pulling bikes out of bogs is hard work and not enjoyable!!

If we are to fix the lack of entries problem then we need to know what the issue is first.

When I first started riding there was just one route that everyone rode. I can still remember my first trial, I was 13 and had a 247 Montesa and my riding gear consisted of jeans and NCB wellies . I must of three'd or fived every section but finished. We still use those same gullies today but for clubmen and experts, the easy route usually goes along the edge.

My point being that Im just an average clubman rider but as a 13 year old managed to ride a very heavy bike around what now would be classed as the clubman route. So Im curious to know what prevents adults on a light modern trials bike finishing a trial on the easy route?

Im not trying to offend anyone, just looking for answers.

 

[cabby]

30 minutes ago, haysy said:

 

My point being that Im just an average clubman rider but as a 13 year old managed to ride a very heavy bike around what now would be classed as the clubman route. So Im curious to know what prevents adults on a light modern trials bike finishing a trial on the easy route?

 

 

Fitness.

I've watched many a newbie dragging their bike out of section after section, not overly difficult sections but sections where they possibly fall over and then feel they are holding the whole trial up, so drag their bike out, do that x40 and you'll find one very tired beginner. It's fatigue that gets the newbies not section severity and a 13 year old is a lot fitter than your average 50 something newbie. 

[totty79]

40 minutes ago, cabby said:

Fitness.

I've watched many a newbie dragging their bike out of section after section, not overly difficult sections but sections where they possibly fall over and then feel they are holding the whole trial up, so drag their bike out, do that x40 and you'll find one very tired beginner. It's fatigue that gets the newbies not section severity and a 13 year old is a lot fitter than your average 50 something newbie. 

Fits my experience, fatigue sets in on lap one or two, falls become frequent, laps three and four become just about endurance. Riding with underdeveloped skills is very physical.

People tend to help in sections, it's worse to get stuck in a bog, wedged in a barbed wire fence, fall 10' into a steam, go over the bars trying to get over a log, submerge a bike etc. between sections.

There should be plenty of others on here with this experience, or is that the problem do most unfit middle aged new starters end up quitting? Having said that I now just practise I don't compete.

Edited September 3, 2017 by totty79