Popular Post davidbaker Posted September 18, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) LONG POST ALERT The original question posed in this thread was ‘where are all the entries?’ - this gracefully morphed into ‘how to attract new people into the sport?’. 8 pages of opinion later and the good people organising the Seaton Delaval trial decided to take some action and host a conducted trial for adult beginners. Well, I was one of three adult beginners who signed up, all of us rather predictably male, white and hunting down middle age so we may have increased participation but we did nothing for diversity! Perhaps a topic for another day. I will not go over the format of the day as this has already been described in a previous post, I would rather focus on the question in hand and feedback on my experience. The only reason I (and I suspect the other two) attended this particular trial was because it was conducted. This immediately voids any comment around the fact that it was not worth the effort. Three new riders, each buying a bike, riding gear and a load of new parts to get those bikes up to spec - the person I bought my bike off only sold it in order to buy a new one - show me one thing here which is not a positive. Given that trials is a minority sport I can not imagine it attracting any more than 1 or 2 new riders per month in a region so we should not be disheartened by what could be considered a low number - it is unlikely there are hundreds of people out there sitting on sofas in boots and helmet wishing they could take part. So lets be happy with 3 for now. All of this must be looked at from a beginners point of view, all you long termers can have your say, and constructive suggestions are always good but if you want the answer to a question - ask the people who might have the answer. A lot of people thinking about getting into trials will be like me, had road bikes for years, maybe had a field bike or two when they were younger so riding the bike has never been a barrier to me entering a trial, the barrier was always not wanting to look like a fool in front of other riders and having watched several trials, the whole thing looked very intimidating. As a beginner I don’t see trials as a sport, I see it as enjoying riding a motorcycle, a Sunday activity, I don’t care about the points, I don’t want to be competitive (for now). Having a conducted trial was EXACTLY what I needed, enabling me to feel comfortable and confident in an otherwise unfamiliar and mildly stressful environment. While advertising it as a ‘conducted trial’ may be technically correct, advertising it as something like ‘help and guidance for beginners available’ would be more appropriate so anyone reading the event details knows exactly what they can expect. Ask your Auntie Dot what she understands by ‘a conducted trial’ and I suspect she will not give you the answer you were looking for. If we want to encourage new people into trials we should always try and remove any barriers which prevent people understanding what it is, how it works and how to get involved. If that means breaking with the odd tradition or accepted norms, so be it. As I alluded to earlier, if you want to know what the barriers are, ask the people to whom there are barriers I have already thanked Ray Crinson & Glen Quinn for managing us through the trial on the day and on a local forum, however I would like to do so once again. And for any other clubs considering similar conducted trials I would say it is important to use people who have the correct temperament to do the conducting. Both Ray & Glen approached it with a great attitude, calmness and the ability to clearly describe sections / bike inputs etc. The three of us went home with a sense of achievement and I suspect Ray & Glen did the same. I already have several trials penciled into the calendar so it would appear this adult conducted trial experiment was very much worth the effort, for me at least. It might be that no new people show up but at least the door is open for people to have a look inside and just maybe they will walk through. All clubs should offer adult conducted trials - it’s a no-brainer and cost neutral. Would I suggest changing anything? Nope, all us beginners need is a little bit of structured help - nothing more. And just for reference, the fact I had to fill in a form with an actual pen and hand over £15 in actual money isn’t one of the barriers..… Thank you Edited September 18, 2017 by davidbaker 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maco Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 2 hours ago, davidbaker said: LONG POST ALERT The original question posed in this thread was ‘where are all the entries?’ - this gracefully morphed into ‘how to attract new people into the sport?’. 8 pages of opinion later and the good people organising the Seaton Delaval trial decided to take some action and host a conducted trial for adult beginners. Well, I was one of three adult beginners who signed up, all of us rather predictably male, white and hunting down middle age so we may have increased participation but we did nothing for diversity! Perhaps a topic for another day. I will not go over the format of the day as this has already been described in a previous post, I would rather focus on the question in hand and feedback on my experience. The only reason I (and I suspect the other two) attended this particular trial was because it was conducted. This immediately voids any comment around the fact that it was not worth the effort. Three new riders, each buying a bike, riding gear and a load of new parts to get those bikes up to spec - the person I bought my bike off only sold it in order to buy a new one - show me one thing here which is not a positive. Given that trials is a minority sport I can not imagine it attracting any more than 1 or 2 new riders per month in a region so we should not be disheartened by what could be considered a low number - it is unlikely there are hundreds of people out there sitting on sofas in boots and helmet wishing they could take part. So lets be happy with 3 for now. All of this must be looked at from a beginners point of view, all you long termers can have your say, and constructive suggestions are always good but if you want the answer to a question - ask the people who might have the answer. A lot of people thinking about getting into trials will be like me, had road bikes for years, maybe had a field bike or two when they were younger so riding the bike has never been a barrier to me entering a trial, the barrier was always not wanting to look like a fool in front of other riders and having watched several trials, the whole thing looked very intimidating. As a beginner I don’t see trials as a sport, I see it as enjoying riding a motorcycle, a Sunday activity, I don’t care about the points, I don’t want to be competitive (for now). Having a conducted trial was EXACTLY what I needed, enabling me to feel comfortable and confident in an otherwise unfamiliar and mildly stressful environment. While advertising it as a ‘conducted trial’ may be technically correct, advertising it as something like ‘help and guidance for beginners available’ would be more appropriate so anyone reading the event details knows exactly what they can expect. Ask your Auntie Dot what she understands by ‘a conducted trial’ and I suspect she will not give you the answer you were looking for. If we want to encourage new people into trials we should always try and remove any barriers which prevent people understanding what it is, how it works and how to get involved. If that means breaking with the odd tradition or accepted norms, so be it. As I alluded to earlier, if you want to know what the barriers are, ask the people to whom there are barriers I have already thanked Ray Crinson & Glen Quinn for managing us through the trial on the day and on a local forum, however I would like to do so once again. And for any other clubs considering similar conducted trials I would say it is important to use people who have the correct temperament to do the conducting. Both Ray & Glen approached it with a great attitude, calmness and the ability to clearly describe sections / bike inputs etc. The three of us went home with a sense of achievement and I suspect Ray & Glen did the same. I already have several trials penciled into the calendar so it would appear this adult conducted trial experiment was very much worth the effort, for me at least. It might be that no new people show up but at least the door is open for people to have a look inside and just maybe they will walk through. All clubs should offer adult conducted trials - it’s a no-brainer and cost neutral. Would I suggest changing anything? Nope, all us beginners need is a little bit of structured help - nothing more. And just for reference, the fact I had to fill in a form with an actual pen and hand over £15 in actual money isn’t one of the barriers..… Thank you You say the only reason you showed up on Sunday was because it was 'conducted'. Can I ask what stopped you going to the Butsfield training day on the Saturday? Slightly different principles, mark sections out with Colin & Micky & ride them until every cleaned them. After this a full trial occurred. Was it just not advertised right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbaker Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Butsfield sounded very good and local to me, however I already committed to the Sunday and there was no way the handbrake (puts a stop to everything) was going to let me have two days biking in a weekend. I've got a couple of children to entertain and we had plans. So nothing at all wrong with the way it was advertised, just couldn't make it. I did spectate at Butsfield a couple of weekends ago and thought some of it a bit much for me but having done the conducted thing yesterday it doesn't feel quite so bad, if the dates work for me next time I'll be there. I think the next one I can make is Weardale - just enough time to forget everything Ray & Glen told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Nigel Dabster - perhaps you could post exactly what you feel was untrue in my post. I do not go on facebook so you will have to give fuller details on here of your subsequent post. To get back on topic. If the decline is to be stemmed there needs to be: 1) More easily accessible practice areas 2) A much better selection of cheap, easy to maintain and reliable entry level motorcycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, maco said: You say the only reason you showed up on Sunday was because it was 'conducted'. Can I ask what stopped you going to the Butsfield training day on the Saturday? Slightly different principles, mark sections out with Colin & Micky & ride them until every cleaned them. After this a full trial occurred. Was it just not advertised right? Maco thanks for bringing this up. We had a discussion in this thread and others suggested something to try. Seaton Delaval club had an event coming up at a suitable venue so agreed to try out a conducted adult course. On the Thursday evening this was publicised via trialscentral calendar, front page, this thread and Facebook. By lunchtime on Friday Stanley Club had announced a similar event on the preceding day. Stanley are staging the same event again this week. More events for beginners is a good thing but why didnt they just run this weekend ? Too many trials in a centre aimed at the same riders is part of our centres problem with low entries. Stanley got 19 riders for combined trial and tuition, Seaton Delaval got about 40 for a centre trial including conducted adults and beginners. One trial with 60 entries each weekend would surely have been a better result for both clubs and for the riders who would have met more fellow beginners. Edited September 19, 2017 by baldilocks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 10 hours ago, dadof2 said: To get back on topic. If the decline is to be stemmed there needs to be: 1) More easily accessible practice areas 2) A much better selection of cheap, easy to maintain and reliable entry level motorcycles. why will more practice areas be better ? will that give riders some were to ride and NOT go to trials ,as we are trying to get entrys ? as for entry level motorcycles ?at what cost against 2nd hand bike is there a profit in it ? so if its cost why do you see some new riders out on factory replicas or new bikes ? DavidBaker summed the problem with new riders ( trials is a sport so why get a trials bike ) ? 18 hours ago, davidbaker said: A lot of people thinking about getting into trials will be like me, had road bikes for years, maybe had a field bike or two when they were younger so riding the bike has never been a barrier to me entering a trial, the barrier was always not wanting to look like a fool in front of other riders and having watched several trials, the whole thing looked very intimidating. As a beginner I don’t see trials as a sport, I see it as enjoying riding a motorcycle, a Sunday activity, I don’t care about the points, I don’t want to be competitive (for now). Having a conducted trial was EXACTLY what I needed, enabling me to feel comfortable and confident in an otherwise unfamiliar and mildly stressful environment. Thank you but trials is a sport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maco Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 hours ago, baldilocks said: Maco thanks for bringing this up. We had a discussion in this thread and others suggested something to try. Seaton Delaval club had an event coming up at a suitable venue so agreed to try out a conducted adult course. On the Thursday evening this was publicised via trialscentral calendar, front page, this thread and Facebook. By lunchtime on Friday Stanley Club had announced a similar event on the preceding day. Stanley are staging the same event again this week. More events for beginners is a good thing but why didnt they just run this weekend ? Too many trials in a centre aimed at the same riders is part of our centres problem with low entries. Stanley got 19 riders for combined trial and tuition, Seaton Delaval got about 40 for a centre trial including conducted adults and beginners. One trial with 60 entries each weekend would surely have been a better result for both clubs and for the riders who would have met more fellow beginners. I'd guess that Stanley decided to run the trial because of the distance people had to travel to get to your Sunday trial. Possibly thinking they would get good numbers. I was away for that weekend so couldn't attend either, but with Seaton delevals trial being 70 mile from myself & Butsfield been around 15 mile I would of rode the Saturday & not the Sunday. Stanley ran a tuition day one Wednesday night a few month back & had always planned to do more throughout the year because they got a good turn out. Around 15 of us if I remember rightly. Like you say, more beginners trials to get people into the sport the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopez Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 23 hours ago, on it said: why will more practice areas be better ? will that give riders some were to ride and NOT go to trials ,as we are trying to get entrys ? as for entry level motorcycles ?at what cost against 2nd hand bike is there a profit in it ? so if its cost why do you see some new riders out on factory replicas or new bikes ? DavidBaker summed the problem with new riders ( trials is a sport so why get a trials bike ) ? but trials is a sport There are thousands of sports that can be enjoyed as a pastime or recreational hobby though Does trials being a sport preclude it from being enjoyed as a hobby in a non competitive environment? I don't think it does..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 55 minutes ago, lopez said: There are thousands of sports that can be enjoyed as a pastime or recreational hobby though Does trials being a sport preclude it from being enjoyed as a hobby in a non competitive environment? I don't think it does..... Well yes it dose Why go to a TRIAL which is ONLY a competitive sport then ? you what a non competitive environment WHY go a trial or do you expect to go to a trial and play/trail about on your bike thats not trials or have you found out as a hobby rider you have no were to go to ride (which could be more of the truth) Sorry but the nature of the sport and what it is about dose preclude it from being non competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopez Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 You make an awful lot of assumptions and have a very black and white view on matters. Why go to a trial which is only a competitive sport then? I guess because you enjoy the riding without feeling the need for competition. I used to do a lot of road rallying, you get plenty of people who enter for the enjoyment rather than the competition. They don't care if they are way behind on penalties and time, they just want to drive around the course and finish. Same goes for lots of other "clubman sports" such as various types of running discipline, cycling, all sorts of things. Have you found out as a hobby rider you have no were to go to ride (which could be more of the truth) If you are referring to me, no - I have a club with it's own practice ground and I can use it as often as I wish. Off road bikes will always present a challenge when it comes to riding locations - which is why I checked before I bought one. Observed Trials is a sport, and sports are competitive. This I understand. But surely you can appreciate that some people (not talking about me) will just want to ride around a section without getting caught up in the competitive element and have a good time, just as they do in countless other "sports" around the world. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonkey Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 20 hours ago, on it said: Well yes it dose Why go to a TRIAL which is ONLY a competitive sport then ? you what a non competitive environment WHY go a trial or do you expect to go to a trial and play/trail about on your bike thats not trials or have you found out as a hobby rider you have no were to go to ride (which could be more of the truth) Sorry but the nature of the sport and what it is about dose preclude it from being non competitive That's like saying you can't buy a football because you only want a kick about and aren't interested in joining the local team. Lots of people enjoy their bikes and riding for what it is (supposed to be) ...fun and relaxation! You sound like your going to start press ganging people as your next step. It may be worth listening to what the people that don't come to trials have to say rather than telling them their just wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, crashmonkey said: That's like saying you can't buy a football because you only want a kick about and aren't interested in joining the local team. Lots of people enjoy their bikes and riding for what it is (supposed to be) ...fun and relaxation! You sound like your going to start press ganging people as your next step. It may be worth listening to what the people that don't come to trials have to say rather than telling them their just wrong. buy a football kick it about dose that make you a foot ball player ! yes you can go "free ride" on a bike dose not make the rider a trials rider so whats it got to do with trials then? . Well the topic is about WERE ARE ALL THE ENTRIES???? why do people that dont want to do the sport or go to a trial have to contribute to the topic ? ,as i said in a early post, trials / trials clubs are not the cause for the lack of entries .AS for "listen to people that dont come to trials have to say rather than telling them they are just wrong" well what have the got to say about a sport they are not interested in , baffles me ! you either ride a trial or you dont the end Edited September 21, 2017 by on it add info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 @on it whilst I can see what you mean if we got just half the people who go practicing every week to ride instead we would then have a lot more entries ? However we have to have a sensible approach as if we fundamentally change events to suit those that currently practice we risk the people who ride now leaving to practice. Which gets us nowhere. The issue is that riders now expect their exact requirements to be met. This can only be done for smaller groups if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on it Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, baldilocks said: @on it whilst I can see what you mean if we got just half the people who go practicing every week to ride instead we would then have a lot more entries ? However we have to have a sensible approach as if we fundamentally change events to suit those that currently practice we risk the people who ride now leaving to practice. Which gets us nowhere. The issue is that riders now expect their exact requirements to be met. This can only be done for smaller groups if at all. Glen 100% its catch 22 is the sensible approach be happy with numbers we have & spend more effort to keep them in the sport ? and do as we do now make new riders to the sport of trials welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 9 hours ago, on it said: Glen 100% its catch 22 is the sensible approach be happy with numbers we have & spend more effort to keep them in the sport ? and do as we do now make new riders to the sport of trials welcome people die. we need new riders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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