Where are all the entries????

[turbofurball]

I don't have a solution, but as a new-ish 40+ rider when I look at classic trials in continental Europe it looks like a nicer setup - taped courses where you can just get from the start to the end as a beginner (or someone who isn't competitive and just wants to have fun), with a small number of tricky gates for the A and B riders.  It looks like it makes it easier to understand on the day, and makes more sense when you're watching a video of it too.

Is there areason why this is rare to see in the UK?  Is the tape too much faff?

[cabby]

Pre entry trials is for the dark ages, it's 2017. Sending cheques...WTF ! no wonder you can't get young folk in to it, they don't even know what a cheque is, nevermind what it looks like. We're living in modern times and until such til as the dinosaurs in trials realise that, you're going to struggle for entries. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by cabby

[baldilocks]

How about rules and regulations. We've had a number of variations over the years but still can't agree as a sport on a method which can be reliably and consistently observed to determine a winner. Current favourite combination of mine is a section that can't be ridden no stop combined with a die hard no stop observer. Brilliant waste of everyone's time and money.

Is moving rocks allowed, strictly no but everybody does ? 

Do events give a fair opportunity to all riders ? No, if it's a northern national full of slippery streams and you are in the first 30 riders you have no chance. So please explain why riders should pay to scrub sections, be late on time as a consequence and then get bollocked off the observer for moving a rock that everyone knows will be knocked out within 10 attempts at the section. Who in their right mind is going to travel for that kind of day out ?

Road trials ? Please pay £6000 for a bike that's a traffic cops dream come true and then pay to enter an event where you sign to say you and your machine comply with the RTA. 

And if you are under 19 please bring the other 6000 bike, the 125, you have just for road trials.

Lots of problems here we have put up with for years but which to a newcomer just make no sense. Daft.

Edited August 29, 2017 by baldilocks

[turbofurball]

2 hours ago, cabby said:

Pre entry trials is for the dark ages, it's 2017. Sending cheques...WTF ! no wonder you can't get young folk in to it, they don't even know what a queue is, nevermind what it looks like. We're living in modern times and until such til as the dinosaurs in trials realise that, you're going to struggle for entries. 

It'd be nice if there was a quicker way to sign on for events; eg. turn up and book in on your phone (using an app that knows your details), pay through paypal, and just collect your number.

Also,  if you have a listing that just says something like "Farmer's Wood" and the postcode on an events page, it's a bit offputting.  Having a photo or two of previous events there, maybe a link to a video, gives people an idea of what to expect and might help encourage those who are on the fence about going.

Few clubs appear to have an online guide for newbies (like, here are the nearest loos, the stages are usually around this area, you can park over there, etc etc), or an introductory video about the club ... that's the sort of thing new riders would appreciate regardless of age.

[cleanorbust]

1 hour ago, turbofurball said:

It'd be nice if there was a quicker way to sign on for events; eg. turn up and book in on your phone (using an app that knows your details), pay through paypal, and just collect your number.

Also,  if you have a listing that just says something like "Farmer's Wood" and the postcode on an events page, it's a bit offputting.  Having a photo or two of previous events there, maybe a link to a video, gives people an idea of what to expect and might help encourage those who are on the fence about going.

Few clubs appear to have an online guide for newbies (like, here are the nearest loos, the stages are usually around this area, you can park over there, etc etc), or an introductory video about the club ... that's the sort of thing new riders would appreciate regardless of age.

These suggestions seem sensible. They are also light years away from how most clubs seem to operate, which in my area is pretty much how they did things in the 1970s, when I started. Come to that, it's often the same people putting in the organisational effort as did so all those decades ago. I'm very grateful that they do so.

[on it]

6 hours ago, turbofurball said:

I don't have a solution, but as a new-ish 40+ rider when I look at classic trials in continental Europe it looks like a nicer setup - taped courses where you can just get from the start to the end as a beginner (or someone who isn't competitive and just wants to have fun), 

is  part of the problem with so many courses people just get confused with all the markers, Also is x laps to much for the new riders, youth & adults why not  let them choose full trial or half  must be disheartening to struggle just to get round the course then 5 the sections

[trapezeartist]

5 hours ago, baldilocks said:

How about rules and regulations. We've had a number of variations over the years but still can't agree as a sport on a method which can be reliably and consistently observed to determine a winner. Current favourite combination of mine is a section that can't be ridden no stop combined with a die hard no stop observer. Brilliant waste of everyone's time and money.

Is moving rocks allowed, strictly no but everybody does ? 

Do events give a fair opportunity to all riders ? No, if it's a northern national full of slippery streams and you are in the first 30 riders you have no chance. So please explain why riders should pay to scrub sections, be late on time as a consequence and then get bollocked off the observer for moving a rock that everyone knows will be knocked out within 10 attempts at the section. Who in their right mind is going to travel for that kind of day out ?

Road trials ? Please pay £6000 for a bike that's a traffic cops dream come true and then pay to enter an event where you sign to say you and your machine comply with the RTA. 

And if you are under 19 please bring the other 6000 bike, the 125, you have just for road trials.

Lots of problems here we have put up with for years but which to a newcomer just make no sense. Daft.

When I last rode in trials (40 odd years ago!) "no stop" was strictly enforced and everyone knew where they stood. Since then "stop allowed" has come and (largely) gone but the interpretation of "no stop" has been left in a rather woolly state. Having been observing recently, I've been happy to allow "hesitation" but penalise "stop" and no-one has complained, but I agree that it's not very precise.

The complaints about experts hanging back to let someone else scrub the moss off rocks were around 40 years ago. The modern system of starting groups at various different sections should make things much better.

Road trials were good 40 years ago because it was easier to find some good sections and join them up with a few miles of road. But modern bikes are not really sensible on the road. Just run road trials for Pre-65 and Twinshocks and take the temptation away from any over-keen coppers.

[hencam]

Some very valid points, however in my humble opinion section severity is an issue, not sure i like the word severity, as personally i think it is more a problem of the gulf that exists between a rider starting out, a more mature rider who is somewhat careful as they don't mend as well as they used to, or someone recovering from surgery or just getting older etc and the other end of the scale an experienced fit and healthy regular rider.  This coupled with the fact nobody nowadays wants to drop a 'cricket score' where as years ago you put up with it.  

so should a club put on more routes to give everyone something they are comfortable with or do they put on two routes and risk putting newcomers or those mentioned above off?  I have also heard complaints of trials being too easy.

One of the clubs I ride with regularly with has just ran an event in Devon, a super piece of land with traditional Devon stream sections, but only 30 or so entries. I listened to comments on the day as a number of the people not riding were observing and i chatted with quite a few who felt it was too challenging for them.  however if the easier route had been made easier the top chaps/chapesses would have probably not dropped any.

 the other down side to low entries is less chance of finding 10 or 12 observers, more riders, more chance of observers

for what it is worth my twopenneth, you cannot mix the entry between modern and classic, at best it will be a poor compromise with both camps not really happy,  however there is no need to refuse any entries but if the moderns turn up at a classic trial too bad just ride it put up and shut up and vice versa for the classics turning up at a modern bike club.

3 ride in my family, i am fortunate to ride most weekends so have built a fair degree confidence, my dad has been recovering from a shoulder Op and is building confidence but does not want to 'hurt himself' or set back the healing process, my brother works for the mafia (a superstore every little helps) and cannot ride as often as he would like due to working sunday so confidence is lower.  A two route event does not provide sufficient breadth of ability coverage. I have to hand it to our local clubs Somerton Classic and Wilts and Dorset for running with 3 routes where all three of us can ride and have a good day.  The British Bike trial at Priddy attracted over 100 entries for each day, the same is true of the SWCTA 2 day events and the Eurocup,  so somebody can get the recipe right!

I also notice quite a few clubs in the South west centre are putting on introduction to trials routes, or 5 sections separate from the main event, i have seen the numbers steadily increase, this weekend there must have been 10-15 riders all 'learning' and enjoying our wonderful sport.  I agree we need young blood in the gene pool but this should compliment those having ago at any age.

my personal view - more people will return if the event is 'too easy' than if they go home disheartened with a high score or worse an injury.

all views are based on personal opinion, observation and from chatting with fellow riders. 

 

 

[breagh]

While I agree with most of your points I feel too many routes is not the answer.

You've got to ask who are you running the trial for and if you're answer is everyone it wont work.

You try to please everyone and it just turns out a compromise.

We run trials for beginners and casual riders and basically ignore the more advanced types I really don't believe club trials should be used as a training ground for experienced riders .

Trial really consists of only one easy route with a maximum of 3 extra gates for the more experienced. This way the new folk don't get intimidated.

So my point really is don't try to run a trial for all abilities.

As for getting new folk in .running entry level trials concentrating on the fun element seems to work

[cabby]

14 minutes ago, breagh said:

 

We run trials for beginners and casual riders and basically ignore the more advanced types I really don't believe club trials should be used as a training ground for experienced riders .

 

For a period of time, you guys pandered to a small minority by increasing the severity of sections, it put me off, I suspect it possibly put others off to.

[john b]

Just my comments.....

i honestly just think it's the time of year ! People on holiday, having other stuff to do and In the north east combined with lots of available trials (Wednesday saturday sunday ) means lots of choice.

As a north East trailler with my son I don't think there isuch wrong. Youth entries at £5 and adult between £10-£15 - come on .... Try a days sport in any discipline for that !!

Regarding getting youths into the sport the problem is simple - kids grow up quick and move onto the main trial leaving a gap for conducted trials. I helped in 2010 for a year or so while my son  did conducted - and that group of kids moved on (and most still riding) and need to be replaced. We did have a gap but I'm glad to see conducted trials back on. Richmond have a great asset in Ted who has run conducted trials for years - the culture is there that they do great kids trials.

There is also now a tremendous choice of trials - we have done the kia rounds for the last 2 years and they are great value - so we will miss about 8 north east trials because of it.

in summary I would say don't panic (at least in North East ) I do understand it's frustrating for organisers to put a trial on for 25 riders but I know that's the minority of trials - we will all too soon be sick of the queuing at the 120+ rider club trials later in the year !

ypurs in sport

John

[lopez]

Single almost 40 newcomer here

Bike cost - not a huge issue. £1500 buys you a nice Rev 3 or (just about) an older Evo
Trailer/transport cost - Annoying but not crazy. I got a towbar for £60 and a rack for £40
Running costs - not a huge issue, a few quid in petrol, bearings etc etc
Entry fees - Again not really very much. The cost of a trial entry is about the same as an average pub meal, pretty good I think
Bikes - I think the modern bikes look sexy but the marketing sucks. 

Actually talking of marketing....

The whole sport is badly marketed and has a huge "lack of publicity" issue.
When do you see trials on the sports roundup? How prominent are the videos on YouTube unless you specifically look for them? When I bought my bike and talked about it with friends and colleagues literally not one person had heard of, or seen, a trials bike. I mean I'm talking a zero percent hit rate out of something like 200 people from all walks of life. By contrast, everyone's heard of motocross, everyone has heard of car racing, rallying, blah blah blah.

For me personally, I find some section marking utterly bewildering. Expert, clubman, intermediate, novice, 50/50, some of this, some of that, some of the other. Never mind being able to traverse a section, I need to find my way around it first! And to find my way around it, I could do with knowing where I'm going.... standing in a gravel quarry or whatever surrounded by 100 people who all look like they have been doing it forever...few signposts, limited instructions, inflexible joining ability, online access and promotion like something out of the dark ages....

I'm rambling here I know, but basically the sport, whilst friendly and welcoming is just not geared up to attract new people. If you want people to do stuff it needs to be ridiculously easy in this day and age, or they just won't bother, unless they have a dad/uncle/brother or whatever who's in the know. Someone mentioned pre registering by cheque for example, I haven't had a cheque book for 15 years! I want to pay contactless, I want to pay online, I want to do it via Paypal, I want an app

Please don't take this post as a whine, it's not - it's just trying to point out how out of touch with the modern world Trials seems to be from my outsider's perspective.

[on it]

after reading the posts  . The big one is how secret the sport is and how we hide in the shadows no wonder no new blood in the sport they dont know about it ! read some of the locations for the trials the row/tip end all ok if you know were your going, but a new rider going to there 1st trial a row of flags at a junction mean nothing to them ,  They arrive at a trial  muddy field to park in ,no toilets ( for wife & girl friend ) = observers ,a farm track to get there ,someone new turns up in there car what a shock might be there first time up such a farm track there thoughts of the day not going back im going to wreck my car"£300 exhaust"!  I feel there is a lot more needs sorting with trials than the just the sections, peoples expectations are a lot higher now than they were thanks to y tube . As for keeping the youth rider in the sport are they starting too young ? 4yr olds on a osset  by the time they reach 21 they have been in the sport 17 yrs no wonder they want to move on and try something new

Edited August 30, 2017 by on it
add more

[baldilocks]

3 hours ago, john b said:

Just my comments.....

i honestly just think it's the time of year ! People on holiday, having other stuff to do and In the north east combined with lots of available trials (Wednesday saturday sunday ) means lots of choice.

As a north East trailler with my son I don't think there isuch wrong. Youth entries at £5 and adult between £10-£15 - come on .... Try a days sport in any discipline for that !!

Regarding getting youths into the sport the problem is simple - kids grow up quick and move onto the main trial leaving a gap for conducted trials. I helped in 2010 for a year or so while my son  did conducted - and that group of kids moved on (and most still riding) and need to be replaced. We did have a gap but I'm glad to see conducted trials back on. Richmond have a great asset in Ted who has run conducted trials for years - the culture is there that they do great kids trials.

There is also now a tremendous choice of trials - we have done the kia rounds for the last 2 years and they are great value - so we will miss about 8 north east trials because of it.

in summary I would say don't panic (at least in North East ) I do understand it's frustrating for organisers to put a trial on for 25 riders but I know that's the minority of trials - we will all too soon be sick of the queuing at the 120+ rider club trials later in the year !

ypurs in sport

John

I'm not talking particularly about ne centre John. It's great that we get 100+ entries now and again but a lot of those riders are out of centre.

The thread I think is about trials in general on the back of a national championship trial and the Allan Jeffries being cancelled this year, Deryk also refers to lower club trial entries. 

Giving riders lots of choice is good but it has to be viable for clubs in terms of entries or entry fees will go up. However at £6000 for a bike I don't think even if entries were £20 that should be a problem. 

[john b]

hi glen

appreciate the comments -all valid !

regarding promoting trials to the wider public,  I'm not sure ... It's a niche sport at the end of the day . It's not a spectator sport at club level  - but it's a great sport !

how many times have people  said "it's a Bit like kickstart with peter purvis !"  

I do appreciate there is a point where it's fonancially unsustainable for clubs to put a trial on (and a ball ache when 30 riders turn up !) 

magic answer I don't know - lets just hope this great sport keeps going !

john