Usa As A Wr Contender

[mich lin]

Alan, for 5 years riding trials for the factory was all I did 1972-77. I didn't get rich doing it but it gave me the skills I needed to do well in my own business later in life.

What Bultaco paid me was this. The loan of a Dodge Maxi Van with a company gas card for all my fill ups for 5 years. A company expense account that paid for all my hotels, food and entry fees for the events I did.

The salery I recieved was not huge but I did manage to buy my own place in Rescue Califorina which is where a lot of the pictures in my book are taken of me riding.

My only source of income beside my Bultaco paycheck was doing some trials schools, or organizing trials for the fun of it.

Bultaco paid for my boots, helmets and riding gear but most of the time it was free from somebody anyway. They gave me bikes, parts and tires but again most of the time my tires where provided by Dunlap for free.

Foxshox paid me 2 dollars per pair later in my career but that was after my Bultaco contract expired. They sold a ton of those Fox trials shox, they where the biggest selling trials shocks in the world for a few years.

The book I did with Len Weed also paid a little until it sold out. But both the book and the FoxShox deal was when I was a privateer still contesting the Pro class, which I did as long as I could afford it.

To this day I believe I'm the only privateer who ever won the US national championship. 1978 but that's a very long story I'm not going to get into.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

After thoughts on the topic, maybe I was a bit negative, heck if someone can raise some sponsorship and give prize money at events more power to them, but a surcharge on entry fees to give a bit of cash to the higher ranking riders is a sure way to get rid of lower ranking riders in my opinion.

[alan bechard]

Lane, and others following along on the thread,,,

I would say that what you describe is about what the top riders now do / recieve. You have said many times that you were the top paid rider etc. I bet at that time that there were less than 6 riders in the US actually making their living riding.

I think as you look at the current top riders, Jeff, Chris, Bruce etc. that they are working similar arrangements, certainly people are not falling all over themselves to hand them money, but through hard work and dedication these guys in the top of the sport are supported by the sport. (although, that being said, it sure would be nice to see them supported better) I think as you look back through the years, you will find that the top 5 or so guys were making their living, primarily through the sport.

So, what is my point?

My point is that Bernie, Marland et al, ascended the ranks to the world trials scene with much the same financial backing as the current riders operate under.

I do think it would be better for the US riders if there was more financial backing and incentive, but I think that the real improvement in the level of riding that it would bring, would be that if there is more financial incentive, there would be more riders, and with more riders, there would be more competition and opportunities to excell, and with those additional opportunities, we would have more riders of a better caliber.

I believe that the crux of improvement, and if you will, domination of the world trials scene (for those of you with kids think of fairly odd parents : Fairy world total domination) Anyway, we need to get more riders, riding together, pushing each other up the ladder to greater heights.

[wayne thais]

Guys, I was a Langley, OK this fall and helped Ron Lee set up the Pro exhibition sections. Their club had something like a $3,000 purse for the Pro riders, first place paid $1,000. They paid 5 places and had 5 pro riders. The club worked hard and had a really great trials. The event is called Octobertest and is held the same weekend as the Octoberfest in Tulsa.

Ishy I set up an event each year in September, Saturday Ryan comes over and conducts a school and on Sunday we have a joint AMA District 17/MITA event, if I get 30 riders to come I am happy. Because my youngest son is in college and my oldest is growing his business most of the work falls on me, I am slow and it takes me several weekends to just set up the sections.

To be honest we have not attempted to get sponsors or offer a purse, we do actually have checkers which is very rare in this part of the country, we usually check ourselves. To be honest Trials took a back seat in my life for several months as I sold my trials bike to buy a nice road bike, the wife has developed a real taste for riding on the road with me. It has been a real joy spending time together on the road, I now have a really nice "02" Sherco and in May will have a new "06", my youngest son will be out of school and his basketball career will be over so maybe he will be able to ride with me again.

I really believe that Trials is an awesome sport and can grow and prosper in this country, however we are going to have to get our heads together and figure out what it takes to make that happen. Hopefully the new organisation that Al mentioned will help make this happen.

Ted G had a great idea but it cost him to much to repeat it.

Here are somethings that I would like to see happen:

1. A strong national organization, it could be the AMA but they would have to provide some more support.

2. A common agreement on the rules from state/district to district.

3. National classifications, like in bicycle racing (CAT I, II, III, IV, V, Junior, 35+, 40+ etc) In bicycle racing the district rep will move up a class after you acrue a certain number of points, no sandbagging!

4. District Championships and then a National championship, again like in bicycle racing.

Ishy there are many, many motorcycles sold, I see the Dealer news so I know the numbers, most of the road riders want someplace to ride, have you seen how many of them come to the WR's. My wife and I are always looking for someplace to ride to, we mostly ride to someplace to eat.

What I tried to say is that there are other small obscure sports and really bicycle road racing is truly one of them and they are able to survive and offer some really nice purses to draw the top riders from all over the country. I would hope that we could so the some thing for some of our larger events. Here is a website that shows the purse offered at a bike race in Rock Island, Illinois. http://www.bikeiowa.org/mdwbr/Quad%20Citie...05%20flyer.html

Maybe we need to hold some parking lot trials using manmade obstacles.

Like I said earlier I really want to see the sport grow and prosper, if it grows maybe I could get my job back with RYP. That was a lot of fun, I am now working part time in the electronics department at the local Walmart, the wife told me I had to get out of the house.

Wayne

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Guys, I was a Langley, OK this fall and helped Ron Lee set up the Pro exhibition sections. Their club had something like a $3,000 purse for the Pro riders, first place paid $1,000. They paid 5 places and had 5 pro riders.

Wayne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is just what I'm on about $3000 pay 5 places pro class 5 pro riders come take the three grand thank you very much.

World championships, five riders get something out of the game, five riders takes all available funding, thank you very much.

$3000,that would take a couple of events to empty our club bank account then the five pro's wouldn't bother turning up anymore, club would just be left to carry on the same as is now but with an empty bank account.

Looking at what they do in world rounds and the US champ class, the general public say cool and move on, the lad who has an interest says "wow! over my head and moves on".

Isn't the idea to get people into the game, not show what they can't do.

Many of the suggestions in the topic have been tried numerous times in one way or another, I'm not trying to burst your bubble just let you know it didn't work before why will it now.

How I think on the subject is what did work in the past, or worked better than current situations.

Our club once had over 100 novice class riders turn up at a single trial here in the Portland area, that is the question we should be asking, why did over 100 novice class riders turn up.

Sections, straight forward, easy for a rider to get the bike from start to end cards paddling to do it clean was still a challenge.

Bikes, TL 125 ty 125 175 etc, cheap, but also good for trail use if they didn't like trials.

The Yam, Honda, dealer stocking those bikes in the high traffic area for all types of motorcycle riders to see, and ask the question what is it.

Most trials bikes seem to be hidden from view of the General public.

The best thing trials has going for it is it is great fun as a cheap participant motor sport, I would work that side, as the spectator, sponsor side hasn't produced much in the 30 odd years I know of, yes before anyone jumps up with a spectator attendance at a Japan world round or some world indoor, in some cases it does well, but it's not the norm.

Catering for the best few riders in the world, country, club, only will take care of those few riders, without addressing the real problem declining sales and participation.

Edited December 9, 2005 by ishy

[ringo]

Y'all need to start thinking outside the box.

"we did this and that"

Yeah, "we've done this and that for 30 years" and it doesn't work

If some guy can pick up a calander, put a picture of the local high school football team and schedule on top, then go out and sell sponsorships to "help support the high school" then anyone can go out and do something similar for thier 'Trials calander"

The calanders you see with the high school football teams schedule are done by outfits in Hollywood that hire kids or people with 'young' voices. They give them a script like:

"Hi, I'm Bobby with Santa Clarita High School and I'm helping support the football team this year. Would you like to have your business card put on the calander to show your local support?"

They then offer a pittance to the school after they've collected all the money.

Nothing wrong with it, point is that we can take a local pizza shop, burger joint, lawyer outfit to sponsor the areas local trial in exchange for advertising.

A lot of business, big and small, have advertizing budgets that simply haven't been tapped and it would be a great excuse to use the money.

I don't care if our sport gets any bigger but it sure would be nice to see some of our kids earn some money to pay for tires, fuel, gear, etc. and keep them motivated to continue on in the sport.

[wayne thais]

Ishy, you said,

"$3000,that would take a couple of events to empty our club bank account then the five pro's wouldn't bother turning up anymore, club would just be left to carry on the same as is now but with an empty bank account."

AS far as I know the club did not use their money for the purse, they obtained sponsorship from local merchants. Having the 5 pros at a "local" event brought many spectators, the pro exhibition sections were in an area that was easy to access.

You also said,

"Looking at what they do in world rounds and the US champ class, the general public say cool and move on, the lad who has an interest says "wow! over my head and moves on".

Isn't the idea to get people into the game, not show what they can't do."

I agree with this statement 100%, I think the guys doing extreme demos are hurting the sport more than helping it, I attended one of these shows with my wife in StLouis a couple of years ago and from what we could tell most people treated it as a circus act. There was no one who was interested in buying one of those funny looking bikes and trying to do that.

I also think that for the US market we need a bike that can be ridden in a novice event and then used as a "trail bike" we did develop a seat for the Sherco and showed it off at all of the nationals one year with very little interest, probably showed it to the wrong crowd.

Wayne

[the artist formerly known as ish]

So what you are saying Wayne, Ringo, the AMA, NATC, individual clubs, should come up with ways and funds to sponsor little Johnny.

I don't know how your clubs operate but finding volunteers just to put on, and run club events in this area is very hard, judging by the massive response for clubs to host a national in 06 looks like a few other clubs are in a similar situation.

I always thought it was up to the individual, if good enough, to go out and secure their own sponsorship, I don't know about you two, but I also thought trials was an amateur sport run by volunteers not some kind of social security service.

The day some snotty nosed kids comes up to me and says I think you should give me a purse for riding the champ class in this trial, that is the day I will hand them the purse of section ribbon and tell them to spend it wisely cos it's all you going to get off me.

[ringo]

Let me back up here just a moment.

Ishy, you're absolutely right and my only focus of this thread was to give everyone a different perspective.

I'm not implying that we should do anything. I just think it's funny how so many people keep talking about the same thing and attempting to resolve it with the same solution.

Definition of a fool: someone who continues to do the same thing expecting a different result.

You and I both know that nothing is going to change, but maybe we can change the content of this board somewhat.

I also agree that the 'trials exhibitions' are more like a circus act for the people that don't know anything about trials. We've been saying that for years. No offense to Geoff intended at all because we love the shows and respect what he does. The statement made about how people see it and walk away shaking their heads is correct. Just remember when you first saw a trials event and how you couldn't believe your eyes. Then you saw a world indoor video and were stunned beyond belief.

[wayne thais]

EVENT ENTRY FEE MINUTES PRIZES PLACES START TIME FIELD LIMIT

Juniors 10-14 $18 20 + 2 laps Awards 3 8:15 am 75

Juniors $18 20 + 2 laps $500 12 8:15 am 75

Women Category 4 * $25 20 + 2 laps $750 12 8:45 am 150

Masters 50+ *** $30 30 + 2 laps $200 5 9:15 am 150

Men Category 4 $30 30 + 2 laps $900 15 9:55 am 150

Men Category 3 $35 35 + 5 laps $2,400 20 10:35 am 150

Masters 40+ *** $30 30 + 3 laps $900 15 11:30 am 150

Trike & Big Wheel Races

& Youth (6-10) free 45 ribbons - 12:15 pm -

Royal Neighbors of America

Women's Open

$34 35 + 5 laps $2,400 20 1:00 pm 150

Zimmerman Pontiac, Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Honda

Category 1, 2, Pro

$44 50 laps $8,000 25 2:30 pm 150

Masters 30+ Category 3, 4, 5 *** $30 30 + 3 laps $850 15 4:00 pm 150

Men Category 5 / Citizens ** & *** $15 25 + 3 laps Awards 10 4:45 pm 50

* Women are eligible to race in men's categories & ages. See rule #1H2 for details.

Here is the text from the flyer that I mentioned, the snot nosed kids only get awards.

http://www.bikeiowa.org/mdwbr/Quad%20Citie...05%20flyer.html

The guys that get the good money are the guys who are in their late 20's early 30's the purse for the older riders is not too bad.

I am not talking about individual sponsorships, if you are good enough then you should get sponsored, I had a local shop provide me with parts at a decent price plus racing gear when I was competing.

What I am talking about is maybe once a year you hold a big event and work with the local business people to come up with a nice purse, set up some spectator friendly sections. (That is what the club in OK does.) I would not suggest that the local club offer a purse for every event they hold. Our little bicycle racing club only held one race a year but we put a lot of effort into that race. The club 40 miles from us also put on one race per year and they put a lot of effort into their race.

If you keep doing the same thing that you have been doing then you will get the same results that you have been getting.

I am not trying to stir things up and apologize if I am covering the same thing that has been covered before. Ringo (do I know you?) asked and I offered my OPINION. Opinion only, but it worked for club in central Illinois and it seems to be working on a national level. The bicycle racing community has turned out some pretty good riders: Greg Lemond, Davis Phinney, Tyler Hamilton and Lance Armstrong.

Wayne

[mich lin]

Wayne,

I think your pointing out if we had a series of events just like the one at the Oklahoma Oktoberfest, organized accross the country. That we would have something really good.

The Cycle News coverage of that event was perhaps the best for a Trials event in years. Your saying I believe that it would give incentive to our better riders to get out to these events and get together more often. Maybe even provide a Pro series for them?

Is that a correct understanding of your proposal?

[mich lin]

Alan

Perhaps your right that Chris, Geoff and Bruce make about the same saleries that I did for riding. I'm not sure what they are paid!

Bultaco was also kind enough to let me ride in Europe and pay for those trips as well. Including several Scottish Six Days. With gas and Hotels paid for I also was able to travel around the country and compete and train with other riders throughout the nation.

I would often go to the Northeast, Michigan, Pacific Northwest, Southern Califorina, Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas and other areas to compete and train with the locals. I would also follow the tours of European riders who came to the USA to promote the sport. It seemed to me that I got around more than todays riders do.

That's what I see as being a little differnt. Why don't todays top riders get out and around more? The other thing that is differnt, is that the importers in the 70s always had European stars coming to America for schools, Demos and competition tours.

Why don't we see Raga, Doug, Albert and others coming to America and showing us their stuff. Promoting their brand, amazing us mortals and giving our best riders a chance to rub shoulders with them a little?

That was very common in the 70s. In fact when a European rider came I'd follow them accross the nation. Which gave me several trials to compete agaisnt them,learn and often a win over them.

This Pro trials series concept would be the perfect venue for a Raga or a Lampkin to come to.

[mich lin]

Ringo, your point is very valid. Local enthusiasm or grass roots involvement of any sport is the foundation. Be it football, soccer or NASCAR.

Local enthusiasm or the grass roots is the bottom of the pyramid, which is successful local trials,something really fun for the clubman, pop Warner or high school football for that sport is the foundation of football.

College ball would be the next level for football, regional championships or state championships for NASCAR. Which we simply don't have for trials would be our next step, we go strait to the sportsmen age nationals for trials which are all over the country. So we have no interm step for our sport to build from.

The top of the pyramid is a Tiger Woods, a Jeff Gorden, Raga or Bernie. The Guys who live the dream! Without those super star players living the dream, you cannot create the grass roots enthusiasm that football, baseball, golf or NASCAR has.

American Trials has nobody living the dream anymore, your right in saying the trials demos have created simply a sideshow of our best riders.

They are busy booking shows instead of chasing the dream of beating Raga and the other best riders in the world.

That's a distinct change from the atmosphere of the 70s. Yes Bernie, Marland and Debbie did shows but they where exhibitions before 10s of thousands at the half time of Supercross races. I really don't think they were paid, they did it to bring trials before the motocross public.

That's really differnt.

[mich lin]

Ishy, I agree with you that the local clubs should not be tapped for funds to support national or regional competition unless they volenteer to do so. Their main focus like you pointed out needs to be local events that are really fun to ride.

Your also right about big entries in the past. Looking at some old ATA results from the 70s there was 35 or 40 riders in the kids class, over 100 riders in the Novice class.

I also agree with you that trials has become a hidden sport. Little or no dealers that you can walk into and sit on a bike. Little information about local events! Little or no coverage of the sport in Cycle News or the major magazines.

[mich lin]

Look at the high quality of the posters on this tred! The unoffical president of the ATA, a leader in the PNTA, a major player from STRA, an importers rep and a long winded hasbeen. Not a bad croud!