Usa As A Wr Contender

[wayne thais]

Lane,

First of all let me clarify that I am no longer an importers rep, Ryan reorganized and I was a causality! I think the reorganization will certainly help their business.

The thoughts that I am expressing are mine and have nothing to do with any importer.

I was just throwing out some ideas. It is very clear that the local clubs cannot afford to provide cash purses for all of their events, however if there was an end of the year, area/district/regional event that one had to qualify for, then if a nice purse could be offered for several different classes it would give the competitors a target to shoot at. This event would hopefully be a "national" caliber event similar to the event in OK and the club would be "allowed" to invite any Pro rider who would be willing to come. They may even be able to charge a spectator admission fee. The event in OK was first class and they had many spectators, my wife, daughter and I all enjoyed watching the Pro riders compete on the exhibition sections. The event was a two day event and the Pro riders rode something like 12 sections on Saturday and Sunday, they also rode the exhibition sections on Saturday afternoon, the scores from all the rides counted towards the overall score. Awesome rocks in Langley OK.

I would suggest that for instance the top three riders in each class would be allowed to ride in the championship event. All of the clubs who send riders to the event would have to use the same classes/rules and be members of the AMA. Advertise/promote this event in the local media, get people to come, get the press to come, Cycle News, Dirtbike, Dirt Rider etc.. Maybe have three or four of these events across the country and then maybe all of the winners could meet someplace for a National Championship. Ha Ha!

Just some wild aXXXd idea. Which someone else has probably already suggested and been rejected, it is obvious that what we are currently doing is growing the sport by leaps and bounds.

BTW, my youngest son is paying for most of his college by playing basketball, he is a very good trials rider but in order to pay for his education the trials riding has been put on hold, it would have been great for him to have been able to get a scholarship to ride trials. Probably will not happen in our life time.

Wayne

[rlracer]

My turn..... First, thanks Wayne for the kind words about the Octobertest event. The Octobertest event in Oklahoma was part of the Central Regional Series. This is the premier event in the series as represented by our turnout. We had 127 entry's on Saturday & 128 on Sunday with a two-day entry fee of $40. This fee also covered a dinner for riders and their families on Saturday evening after the event. This event rivaled a national event in participation and organization.

Our club did pay a pro class as mentioned by Wayne, the reason is to give the locals in Okla,Tx,Ks, the opportunity to witness the competitive level at which the pro's ride. This was done by having exhibition sections at the end of the day on Saturday that all participants and spectators were able to observe. The NEOTT (North Eastern Oklahoma Trials Team) solicited outside sponsorship to help offset the pro-rider purse. After everything was said and done (expenses, dinner, trophies, pro-purse) the club came out in the black. Not bad for a bunch of Okies huh? NEOTT was attempting to promote the sport of trials, by doing something different and paying a little bit back to the pro-riders who work very hard for an amateur sport where there isn't any $$. Personally, I think it was a success! I'd like to thank Mike McCabe for helping this 'Little Johnny' out some 20 years ago.

I'm not saying this is the future of trials, paying pro-riders to show up and ride local events. But we have to start somewhere to promote the sport. This worked for us the last couple of years, will it work in the future...who knows, but at least we are making an effort to grow the sport and get people excited about it by showing the the 'oooh..ahhs' that can exist. If one 'little johnny' is encouraged at every event, then there is the future my friends.

Ron

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I'd like to thank Mike McCabe for helping this 'Little Johnny' out some 20 years ago.

If one 'little johnny' is encouraged at every event, then there is the future my friends. 

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I do my fair share of encouraging the Kids.

04 season I marked a trial out for the kids at every PNTA event, took my own section markings, bought the trophies out of my own pocket, and made sure every kid got one.

scored the kids through the sections and helped with their bikes has a lot of the time their own parent would be riding the morning trial, I was going to charge a small entry fee, provided their parent signed off I didn't, when it came to my time to ride, I was knackered.

05 did the same at some events, but at others the shortage of riders made it not worth bothering with, I don't think it was the kids that didn't want to ride

because the sections were very easy, I think it was more if mum/dad doesn't bring the kid they can't

That is on top of the six other events I put on this year, and each one of them

had the novice class geared toward the kids.

What bothers me about we should be raising more funds for our pro riders, and kids, it has got to the point some people give me hassle if there isn't an event for their kid or they can't go ride because ishy isn't running the morning day care, and they have to look after their own kid.

Yes Ron, your one of the few who go out and do it, I don't want people telling me how I should be doing it, but I have no problem with them showing me how they can do it.

Less and less people are coming forward to volunteer in the sport of trials, why

[mich lin]

Ishy,

in the Sammy Miller book the key point I came away with was this. Sammy asked someone what the secret to being a great rider was, I can't remember who he asked but it must have been someone Sammy respected. The answer he was given was enthusiasm. Sammy stated he didn't think much of the answer but the more he thought about it the more he realized it was the most important thing about trials.

Each individual is exceited by something a little differnt, the old "differrnt strokes for differnt folks" concept. I really don't believe that US trials offers differnt strokes for differnt folks! When people have enthusiasm for something they get involved, when they don't they stop.

I've experenced that if you don't conform exactly to the mold or program set foreward you get resistence in this sport. Your expected to be a cookie cut trials rider or promoter in the USA. Otherwise your given a hard time and run off.

It's hard to have enthusiasm for trials for long when your put down for having a little fun, set high goals or simply be yourself. Since I've been back in the sport I've gotten flack for taking a team to Europe, organizing the Trial De State, for riding the US Championship and having an interest in trials growth and US riding levels.

Simply, I've lost interest and hope for the sport. I would have loved to get involved on a BIGGER level. Helped more riders, organize more events, donate more money but everytime I did some of that somebody had a bone to pick.

Simply because I didn't want to play their game, or be happy as it was. When I organized an event "the Trials De State" which favored states with big youth programs there was flak because states with small youth programs didn't have a chance. Why didn't they simply get off their behinds and build one? You begin to ask yourself why lisen to all the complainers? The do nothing croud.

I'm sure you can relate in some way after organizing the kids program for the PNTA, investing your own time and money. That's exactly what I did only in a little differnt direction. We simply lose enthusiasm.

A couple of last examples of differnt strokes, gone bad! Two girls rode the Donner Youth National agaisnt the boys that you and your son did a few years ago. Your son won 2 of the 3 days but didn't ride the third day because of needing to return home. A girl rider won the overall agaisnt the boys because of your sons absence at the last round, yet she was not allowed to stand with boys on top of the boys podium. She has had no interest of riding since!

Another older girl also finished on the podium against the boys in a higher class yet she was also not allowed to stand on the boys podium. She also has not ridden a single event since then. Their goal was to place with the boys, yet they where not allowed to. Again differnt strokes, yet their hope and dream of competeing with the boys was taken away along with the enthusiasm for trials.

Sorry for the negativity, I'm generally a possitive person! I've simply lost enthusiams for riding and the sport. Only because there is no diffent strokes for differnt folks allowed here.

[alan bechard]

I myself enjoy hearing these other ideas and outside the box thinking of how to promote trials.

The Motto on our office wall is "if you keep doing what you have always done, what you will get is what you already have". (kind of along the same lines that many here have said)

Ish, if I am reading you correctly, what you are basicly saying is that we need to get more volunteers out there doing the work. Is that correct?

[rlracer]

Ishy helping the kid's is a great & thankless job, keep it up !

I know in Texas they have a youth fund to help get the kids to the Tenn. Youth Nats. The kids are the future of this small, but great sport we par take in.

Lane Thanks for the Fox Shocks you sent Mike back in the early 80's for my bike.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Ish, if I am reading you correctly, what you are basicly saying is that we need to get more volunteers out there doing the work.

Edited December 12, 2005 by ishy

[brian r]

Ishy,

PM me about trophies.

Thanks,

Brian

[m lawson]

I want to bring up a point that Lane made a few posts ago, the "Barnstorming" that top level riders used to do back in the day. I remember these guys just showing up at a local event to ride with us and it had a huge impact on the local riders. We had a chance to ride with these guys, talk to them when they didn't have their race face on and and learn what it takes to ride at their level. But today you only see the top riders if there is a National in the area. Even when they are a member of your local club, they don't attend the local events that often. Just check the results of local clubs and see how often the names of our top riders appear. So what I don't understand is these guys are paid to ride, it would seem that part of their job would be to travel the country and promote not only Trials, but the brand of bike they are being paid to ride. I think if I was writing their pay check that would certainly be a requirement.

[mich lin]

Great dialog and quite a theme here!

I beleive we cannot live in the past and bask in the glory of what we did to put an American on top in world trials. Or marvel at the huge numbers of riders we had back then. We do need to be aware of history, understand what worked and what didn't, then be clear if we really want a bigger sport and world class riders again.

I asked this question and requested a clear set of goals at my last NATC meeting in 1980. Without clear goals you cannot move in any kind of a direction. The NATC responded by stonewalling my requests for open clear cut goals, yet they did give me enough respect to pull me aside and make it clear what their goals were for the sport.

The goals of the organization was to have no more world class riders from the USA because they created too serious of an atmosphere at the US nationals. This race face atmosphere mentioned above does indeed come with Professional riders "fighting" it out to be top dog. Yet without feeding that dog, riders cannot mature into winnning fighters/riders on an international level.

Next their other goal was to keep the sport small! The NATC didn't want an enviroment where you had to lock your truck between laps or create a situation where sportsmen riders couldn't ride the nationls because the entries where filled with young riders wanting to be the next Adam Raga.

They wanted well organized events they could ride in their senior class divisions and have fun at. So the stagnation and direction that our sport went was clearly planned by the NATC and they successfully created the sport they wanted.

Today none of these people are still riding anymore! So we really do have an oppertunity to reconsider the course of the sport. Now if the NATC is content to keep things as they are, we can go with the new organization just created and set some new more progressive goals for trials if we want. Provided sport growth is indeed something we want.

I believe that the sport stands at a crossroad, we can go anyway we choose. There is no reason why a new professional series cannot be created in the Oktoberfest model,maybe an indoor series, a youth series, a set of regional championships or anything else that can be imagined.

Or we can continue with the NATC model designed to keep the sport small and targeted to senior class riders to have fun. The decision of the movers and shakers of trials is simply this, do we leave this a sport for senior riders only? Or do we figure out a way to include new riders, youngsters and potentual Adam Ragas?

Today trials does not give oppertunities for all possible interests. Yes we provide excellent entertainment for senior class riders but other age groups or interest levels are not given room to participate. How these riders are included I'm not sure about yet but the untapped potentual is there provided we really do want sport growth today.

[mich lin]

MLawson

Your barnstorming point is a great one! Todays top riders are not made available to the general riding public as they were in the 70s. Not having Adam Raga or Dougie come on tours of the United States makes them more mystical to our top American riders. Which means they never get to practice with them, learn from them and most importanly have a shot at beating them. So they become legendary, insted of simply someone to beat.

The same is true with the US top riders, they are insulated from the general trials population are are not available to practice with, learn from or have a shot a beating as much as Bernie, Marland or myself were. It creates sort of a closed shop atmosphere.

When we build name riders into mental giants as we have Geoff on a national level and Dougie or Adam on an international level we see a climate where young riders cannot even imagine beating them. If youngsters cannot see themselves beating a Geoff Aaron they never will, just like if the US champion cannot see himself beating Adam Raga he never will.

It might be true that the top riders perfer it like this because they do not get as much pressure from the young lions coming up. It just might keep their place at the top more secure for longer peiords of time. So doing anything to open up the top ranks of the sport on a national or international level might get some resistance from the current champions. Simply a thought!

Barcota was right to some extent of his appraisal of my goals for riding the nationals in 05 but I disagree with his contempt for it. My riding the US Pro class was to prove a point and of course have some fun!

My final overall national number for the year in the US pro class championship would have been national #7. I wanted to show the youngsters that if you don't compete with Geoff you cannot even figure into the results or ever hope to beat him. The point was simply just do it, jump in and get involved!

If you wait to long, your going to be to old to beat Geoff and for sure Adam Raga. I was pleased to see Patrik Smage take my challenge and move up to the Pro class and face off with Geoff and crew mid season. What he did was what I was hoping all the young tigers would do, jump in and join the Pro class fight!

A US Pro class with only 6 0r 7 riders is really sad! Seeing all our best youngsters in their most important formative years segregated from the best American Pros is counter productive to their development. It derails the time table they need to follow if they ever hope to beat someone like an Adam Raga.

So your observation of barnstorming really is a good one and perhaps the reason we have Geoff and Dougie winning such a long string of championships?

[kinell]

I was pleased to see Patrik Smage take my challenge and move up to the Pro class and face off with Geoff and crew mid season

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you actually issue the challenge to young Smage? Or are you just taking the credit for it?

[bikespace]

One problem I see with the purse events - you can only give it to the top class. Maybe that's what should happen, but I don't see how money can be paid to other classes.

We are different to these cycle events that have been talked about:

This flat, fast 3/4 mile hourglass shaped course is the same as the past several years.

When you progress to the next class in this race, the worst that will happen is you get left behind (to whatever extent).

When you are forced to progress to the next level in trials the worst that could happen is you can't get through a single section all day, or you die trying.

Our sport doesn't seem to have clearly structured classes.

Presumably most of these cycle events have structured classes.

Our current system would be VERY easy to cheat if someone started paying money for the classes.

Is yours different over there?

[alan bechard]

Our sport doesn't seem to have clearly structured classes.

Presumably most of these cycle events have structured classes.

Our current system would be VERY easy to cheat if someone started paying money for the classes.

Is yours different over there?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I do not think ours are much different from yours, but if you look through Waynes posts, that is one of his common themes, that he, and many others, myself included would like to see resolved.

One of the first steps that the US needs to do to progress is to name the classes the same and have them in the same order, highest to lowest or vice versa.

Again, that is something that the USMTA will be undertaking in an attempt to set some standardization throughout the sport in the US.

And Kinnell, Nahhhhhh,,,,, I doubt the Beave actually DID it, just take credit if nobody questions, then beat a hasty retreat when you get called out is more the beav's style, then let things settle down and talk about how you were doing a good thing, and everyone was picking on you....

[city trials]

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And you can too.

Edited December 13, 2005 by City Trials