4rt oil change

[jimmyl]

25 minutes ago, johnnyboxer said:

Just got one, can you leave it on then..........to do the filter

No but it bolts straight back on ?

[paul7]

I leave mine on, just loosen the bolts about half way and tap the back of the skid plate down a little, works good. After I take the drain bolt out I let the bike lay over against my leg a pretty good ways so the oil doesn't run all over the skid plate, after it's drained I do like everyone else, lay the bike on it's side and take the cover off.
 

[jimmyl]

Ps

dont forget  to kick over the pot you have just collected the oil in ☹️??

[2stroke4stroke]

16 hours ago, jrsunt said:

Its an easy job to take the stator off the cover, 3x 4mm allen bolts and 2x 8mm bolts. Lets hope you don't ever need to replace the cover, they are the wrong side of £400!

I'm just wanting to get it off to paint it - looks like stator removal is the way, thanks.

[scratcher]

On 21/12/2017 at 9:14 AM, evo said:

Thanks for the advice guys. I think its probably one of those things that sounds like a pain in the a*** but once you've seen it been done it becomes easy. 

 

I've heard some people don't take the sump guard off and simply lie the bike on its side to drain the oil out. Has anyone got experience of this?

Yes ive done this. When am changing the oil only.it can be messy. I made a wee ki da funnel up so it directed the oil in a basin..

[steve0]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:50 PM, evo said:

I’m wanting to learn the most efficient way of changing the oil on my 4rt.  Taking it to the bike shop is getting expensive! Has anyone ever done a video? This is the first thing YouTube has ever let me down!

Im hoping to learn the tips and tricks of the trade to make it as easy as possible. 

Thanks in advance. 

This for me was a slight worry, after coming from a 2T 250 EXC where every nut and bolt removal is covered by at least 4 videos i could only find one about the 4RT, the Scottish hydro locked one, now i think as they hardly ever go wrong there just isn't the need for them.  I aim to change that though as i will start making them as i learn how to maintain the beast!

[steve0]

Unrelated but its the start of my 4RT project, i have two to work on a 16 and a 17, Ill practice on one then film the other.

[markbxr400]

Just did my new 17 4RT260 and new 17 300RR (well, sort of).

The 260 went like clockwork, case came off easily with gasket intact, after tapping around the edges with a small dead blow hammer.  While the filter was a little bit of a pain, I just kind of flattened about 1/2" of the edge of the hat with my needle nose pliers, lined it up with where it needs to rub the outside edge of the case,  and it came right out.  Grease was the trick on the spring for reinstall.  Going in, I found if I spun the flywheel slightly to where the filter lined up with one of the longer slots on the side/round edge of the flywheel, I could press the filter down under the lip on the case, then it popped right in.

On the 300RR, I managed to strip the allen head on one of  the rear skidplate bolts, so that took me out of the game as far as replacing the filter.  So I just changed the engine and transmission oils.  Have ordered 10 of those skid plate bolts, and will drill/easy-out the stripped one at the next oil change.

Used the HTX740 for the transmission and Honda Pro HP4 10W40 for the engine.

Cleaned and oiled the air filters as well.

Thanks for all the help on this forum.  Took a little time, but was pretty straightforward.

[johnnyboxer]

5 hours ago, markbxr400 said:

Just did my new 17 4RT260 and new 17 300RR (well, sort of).

The 260 went like clockwork, case came off easily with gasket intact, after tapping around the edges with a small dead blow hammer.  While the filter was a little bit of a pain, I just kind of flattened about 1/2" of the edge of the hat with my needle nose pliers, lined it up with where it needs to rub the outside edge of the case,  and it came right out.  Grease was the trick on the spring for reinstall.  Going in, I found if I spun the flywheel slightly to where the filter lined up with one of the longer slots on the side/round edge of the flywheel, I could press the filter down under the lip on the case, then it popped right in.

On the 300RR, I managed to strip the allen head on one of  the rear skidplate bolts, so that took me out of the game as far as replacing the filter.  So I just changed the engine and transmission oils.  Have ordered 10 of those skid plate bolts, and will drill/easy-out the stripped one at the next oil change.

Used the HTX740 for the transmission and Honda Pro HP4 10W40 for the engine.

Cleaned and oiled the air filters as well.

Thanks for all the help on this forum.  Took a little time, but was pretty straightforward.

Changing the oil filter is a right PITA

On an older well used bike, I wonder how critical it is (new bike and engine, with assembly swarf I get) to change the oil filter

Every time mine has come out it looks fine and nothing in it, plus the oil is clean

So, as Clubman trials is pretty low stress, are we 'over servicing the oil filter'

Recently I only change it every 3rd oil change (change oil 500ml every 4 uses - trial or practice)

What's the concensus?

 

[konrad]

I'm new to the 4RT but often use an oil analysis service to make judgements like that.  Here's a link to a service I use in the States: Blackstone Labs

As you probably know, Honda says to change the oil & filter about every 15 hours.  I imagine that is quite conservative, especially since the engine and gearbox use separate oil systems.  I install hour-meters on all my off-road bikes for maintenance purposes.  Trail Tech recently upgraded their hour-meter to make it even better!  Trailtech TTO

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by konrad

[markbxr400]

I also installed hour meters on every bike, lawnmower, tractor, generator, etc that I own.  I like to know where I'm at on all of this.

Regarding the filters, 

New 2017 4RT 260 purchased in January - 3.7 hours: 

When I drained the engine oil from the 260, it was pretty clear amber.  I let it run over my fingers and noticed very little dark streaks but some fine metal flecks.  When I pulled the oil filter, I also noticed metal flecks and noticed darker coloration.  The bottom screen also had some metal flecks.  When I drained the tranny oil, it was also mostly a clear amber color, but I noticed some black streaking (very fine particles).

New 2017 300RR purchased in May - 1.22 hours:

Surprisingly, the engine oil was much darker than I found on the 260.  I think the dealer ran the bike more than he claimed.  It wasn't black, but definitely dirtier than the 260.  About the same amount of metal flecks as the 260 when I let it run over my fingers.  I wasn't able to pull the oil filter or screen due to stripping the head on one of the rear slid plate bolts, and my not wanting to try to get the side cover off with the skid plate in tact.  The tranny oil looked about the same as the 260 - clear amber with some black streaking.  I will definitely be changing the oil and filter again when I get back from Michigan and my replacement skid plate bolts arrive, as I want to get a baseline on that filter.

My plan going forward, now after initial break-in:

Change the engine oil every 15 hours

Change the oil filters every 30 hours (but still will do the 300RR in the next couple of weeks)

Change the tranny oil every 30 hours

Clean the air filters as needed, probably every couple of trials, depending on dust. 

To me, oil changes, air filter cleaning and valve adjustments are the most critical maintenance things to get long life out of these motors.  While I don't send samples off for analysis as some do, my taking the time to look at them periodically gives me a good indication of whether I should expect any looming problems.

Here's a pic of the 260 oil filter that was pulled at 3.6 hours:

 

[2stroke4stroke]

7 hours ago, johnnyboxer said:

Changing the oil filter is a right PITA

On an older well used bike, I wonder how critical it is (new bike and engine, with assembly swarf I get) to change the oil filter

Every time mine has come out it looks fine and nothing in it, plus the oil is clean

So, as Clubman trials is pretty low stress, are we 'over servicing the oil filter'

Recently I only change it every 3rd oil change (change oil 500ml every 4 uses - trial or practice)

What's the concensus?

 

You're possibly right; how many folk do an oil change every day at the Scottish, if at all during the event?  However it does give the opportunity for a look inside. Apart from size, what's different between the filter and one doing thousands of miles on a road bike after all. As you say, with the oil changed every six trials per the manual there's not much to filter out.

After the first time, I now find the filter easy enough to remove and refit (every second oil change) but it is a design glitch by Honda - a fraction off the back of the flywheel by way of a chamfer would remove the difficulty and, if critical, the weight could be added elsewhere on the flywheel.

[markbxr400]

3 hours ago, 2stroke4stroke said:

You're possibly right; how many folk do an oil change every day at the Scottish, if at all during the event?  However it does give the opportunity for a look inside. Apart from size, what's different between the filter and one doing thousands of miles on a road bike after all. As you say, with the oil changed every six trials per the manual there's not much to filter out.

After the first time, I now find the filter easy enough to remove and refit (every second oil change) but it is a design glitch by Honda - a fraction off the back of the flywheel by way of a chamfer would remove the difficulty and, if critical, the weight could be added elsewhere on the flywheel.

Biggest differences between my trials bike and road bike are:

1. My road bike holds a gallon of oil and my trials bike holds half of a quart

2. My road bike has an oil filter nearly the size of a car oil filter and my trials bike has one the size of large thimble.

My diesel 3/4 ton pickup has two behemoth oil filters and holds 3 gallons of oil, but I go 10,000 miles between changes.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by markbxr400

[steve0]

On 6/7/2019 at 3:35 AM, markbxr400 said:

Just did my new 17 4RT260 and new 17 300RR (well, sort of).

The 260 went like clockwork, case came off easily with gasket intact, after tapping around the edges with a small dead blow hammer.  While the filter was a little bit of a pain, I just kind of flattened about 1/2" of the edge of the hat with my needle nose pliers, lined it up with where it needs to rub the outside edge of the case,  and it came right out.  Grease was the trick on the spring for reinstall.  Going in, I found if I spun the flywheel slightly to where the filter lined up with one of the longer slots on the side/round edge of the flywheel, I could press the filter down under the lip on the case, then it popped right in.

On the 300RR, I managed to strip the allen head on one of  the rear skidplate bolts, so that took me out of the game as far as replacing the filter.  So I just changed the engine and transmission oils.  Have ordered 10 of those skid plate bolts, and will drill/easy-out the stripped one at the next oil change.

Used the HTX740 for the transmission and Honda Pro HP4 10W40 for the engine.

Cleaned and oiled the air filters as well.

Thanks for all the help on this forum.  Took a little time, but was pretty straightforward.

I replace front and rear skid plate bolt with Ti for very little cost

[steve0]

And my experience on both bikes was pretty much the same as above, the filter is fiddly but easily do-able, I greased the new gaskets to try and stop them ripping in future. I just removed the front bolts on the bash-plate to give me some room.